Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, YHWH , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "

Johann

Well-known member
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, 'truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being I exist.'
“εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.” (John 8:58)
הֵשִׁיב לָהֶם יֵשׁוּעַ׃ ״אָמֵן אָמֵן אֲנִי אוֹמֵר לָכֶם, בְּטֶרֶם הֱיוֹת אַבְרָהָם, אֲנִי הוּא.״



The Jewish authorities were questioning Jesus about God the Father and he replied (John 8:19)
He had already told them about his divine origin (John 8:23, 38)
Jesus took their statement to another level (John 8:57, 58).

Not only had he seen Abraham but he was in existence not just before Abraham (which would read ἤμην - ‘I was’) but eternally ‘ἐγὼ εἰμί’.

Note that their response was to pick up stones to throw at him just as in John 10:31 where we are explicitly told their response was to his perceived blasphemy.

What does Torah say about blasphemy? “‘Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of YHWH shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him...” (Leviticus 24:16).

So in John 8:59 their response to his claim was to try and stone him.


John 8:58 reads '...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι (was/existed) ἐγὼ εἰμί (I myself am/exist).'
The Greek version (LXX) of the Torah (circa 250 BC) translates "אני הוא" in Deuteronomy 32:39 as "‘See now that I am (ἐγώ εἰμι), And there is no god besides Me..."

Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, YHWH , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "

And Isaiah 43:10 reads ““You are My witnesses,” declares YHWH (יהוה) , “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He (ἐγώ εἰμι)...”
Compare this with the words of Jesus to John in Revelation 1:7 “Do not be afraid; I AM (ἐγώ εἰμι) the first and the last..."


Revelation 22:13, 16 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end... I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Also Isaiah 43:13; 46:4; 48:12 and... 52:6 is interesting because there YHWH says: "Therefore my people will know my name in that day. For I am (ἐγώ εἰμι/אני הוא), behold I, the one speaking."

There appears to be a subtle pointer here to Exodus 3:14.

In John 10:28-30 we read:
“...I give eternal life to them... and no one will snatch them out of My hand... and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.”

Jesus claims to give eternal life and then puts himself on a par with the Father.
“The Jewish authorities picked up stones again to stone Him... “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

Notice it says they picked up stones again. John is referring back to 8:59 and so tying the charge for both occasions. What did they see as the blasphemy then as well as on this occasion? Claiming to be divine.
"Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (John 10:34)

Many interpret Jesus’ words as directed towards human rulers but a reading of the source, Psalm 82 shows that he is referring to the divine council in heaven who were judged for injustice (to whom the word of God came). If that is the case then what Jesus is asserting is that Tanakh describes the divine council as ‘gods’ and so he too is God but not merely of the created heavenly class but as ontologically one with the uncreated, all powerful Most High Father.

“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
He is not just God but, as stated in John 5, the unique Son of God.
“Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.” (John 10:28–39)
They knew what he was claiming and that’s why they continued to try and take him.


Here is Psalm 82:1
“God takes His stand in the divine assembly (עדת-אל); He judges in the midst of the gods (אלהים). How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? ...I said, “You are gods (אלהים אתם), And all of you are sons of the Most High. “Nevertheless you will die like men (כאדם תמותון) And fall like any one of the princes.”

Key points:
Not a hint of the Law of Moses, of Sinai, the nation or Torah, in the Psalm. Jesus points to the Tanakh’s acknowledgement of the existence of other elohim (also called malakhim and ‘sons of elohim’) in the heavenly court. There are divine beings in the Tanakh but only one eternal Elohim who is YHWH and Jesus is one with this God who is both YHWH and Father.


The other implication is that he is Lord of this heavenly council. The Tanakh points to one who is Messenger and yet God.

Some interpret certain uses of God (אלהים) as meaning human judges but Heisler asserts, "However, neither judges nor elders are found in Exod 21, and the Old Testament never uses the term elohim for human leaders anywhere else. Many presume that Exodus 18 refers to the elders as elohim, but the text never makes that equation. Elohim there refers, as usual, to God. A comparison of Exodus 21:1–6 (אל האלהים) with its parallel in Deut 15:12–18 further weakens this argument."
(Michael S. Heiser, The Bible Unfiltered: Approaching Scripture on Its Own Terms (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2017), 63.)

“The Jewish authorities got the message, too—they charged him with blasphemy. Now ask yourself, why would they do that if all Jesus was saying was “you mortal Jews get to call yourselves sons of God, and אלהים, so I can, too.” That makes no sense at all.”
Michael S. Heiser, The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, First Edition. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2015)

Jesus also said:
“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works..."
Throughout John's Gospel works (ἔργα) refer to Jesus' powerful miracles in terms of God's salvation. They testify to his authenticity: ““...for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.” (John 5:36). Jesus works are the works of God (John 9:3). He was to accomplish God's work (John 4:34) and did complete the task (John 17:4) of bringing God's salvation (John 6:29). God's work is Jesus work and this claim resulted in another attempt to kill him:
“But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” For this reason therefore the Judeans were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” (John 5:17–18).

It was the works which showed he was the divine Messiah (John 10:24-25). He is the source of eternal life and holds believers in the safety of his hand/power. In fact, to be in his hand is to be in the Father's hand. They are one. The context is clear John (10:24-30). Again, the Judeans knew what he was claiming (John 10:31, 33). The works legitimize his claim (John 10:32):

““If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”” (John 10:37–38). Again, they knew what he was claiming and tried to seize him (John 10:39). The works are proof of the unity of the Father and Son: ““Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.” (John 14:11). In fact to reject the works of Jesus is to hate both the Father and Son (John 15:24).


Conclusion
The one who became a man is self-existing. The language John uses in chapter 1 makes a distinction between the one eternally existing as the Word and his becoming at a point in time, a man. The Word already existed '...in the beginning', reflecting the words of Genesis 1:1 but the Word became human and lived a human life. Yet he claimed something which the religious leaders saw as blasphemy. In John 8:58 he used a phrase which is applied to God in Isaiah (אני הוא - Isaiah 43:13 et al) and is related to Exodus 3:14. 'I am' in this context was a claim to being eternal and only God is eternal. They certainly got his gist.
John 1:2 says that οὗτος (he) was in the beginning with God. Throughout John οὗτος is both personal and refers to a person. All things were created 'through him'. John states that he 'beheld' the glory of the λόγος in the person of Jesus. John's testimony of Jesus was that he existed before him, as the unique God who manifests the Father to the world.
The paradox is mind blowing. The eternal becomes temporal. The divine becomes a man - completely... but without ceasing to be self-existent. The immortal becomes mortal. The omniscient becomes limited. The omnipresent becomes focused in time and place. Yet God remains God. We see this throughout Tanakh. The one who fills all things and is present in all time is manifest in one place and time. The God who is one is sender and yet sent.
““This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)
“And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)
“οἴδαμεν δὲ ὅτι ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ἥκει καὶ δέδωκεν ἡμῖν διάνοιαν ἵνα γινώσκωμεν τὸν ἀληθινόν, καὶ ἐσμὲν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ, ἐν τῷ υἱῷ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ. οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἀληθινὸς θεὸς καὶ ζωὴ αἰώνιος.” (1 John 5:20)
To be in the Son is to be in God. In fact he is the true God.

 
Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, YHWH , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "

And Isaiah 43:10 reads ““You are My witnesses,” declares YHWH (יהוה) , “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He (ἐγώ εἰμι)...”
Compare this with the words of Jesus to John in Revelation 1:7 “Do not be afraid; I AM (ἐγώ εἰμι) the first and the last..."


Revelation 22:13, 16 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end... I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Also Isaiah 43:13; 46:4; 48:12 and... 52:6 is interesting because there YHWH says: "Therefore my people will know my name in that day. For I am (ἐγώ εἰμι/אני הוא), behold I, the one speaking."

There appears to be a subtle pointer here to Exodus 3:14.
on point. let's look at this Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

NOTICE this is the "LORD", all caps. "that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he" to KNOW and ..... "BELIEVE?". let's see how many are true BELIEVERS. John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."

YOU shall KNOW ..... "that I am he". how plain can one be? he... God .... told us in Isaiah 43:10 KNOW and BELIEVE". NOW, one more from John lets back up to verse 24., "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Uh O! all those who do not believe that the Lord Jesus is not YHWH, you will die in your sins.

what an condemnation. meaning many and 101G means MANY are just walking DEAD men still in their sins. JESUS is God in an Echad while in flesh. Oh my and just look at how many believe that God is three persons. what a waste.

101G
 
what an condemnation. meaning many and 101G means MANY are just walking DEAD men still in their sins. JESUS is God in an Echad while in flesh. Oh my and just look at how many believe that God is three persons. what a waste.
MONOTHEISM

Mankind has always felt there is more to reality than the physical (i.e., affected by things out of their control, such as storms, eclipses, comets, weather, events, death, etc.). Anthropologists tell us they find things in the graves of primitive hominoids that apparently are for the next life, which they viewed as an extension of this life.

The first written culture was Sumer (southern Tigris, Euphrates Rivers), begun about 10,000 ‒ 8,000 B.C. They wrote poems to express their view of the gods and their interacting, much like humans with all their weaknesses (i.e., like the later pantheons of Canaan, Greece, and Rome). Their traditions existed in oral form long before they were written down.

There was a chronological theological development from

animism to
polytheism to
a high god (or dualism)
The concept of "monotheism" (one and only one personal, ethical God with no female consort), not just the "high god" of polytheism or the good god of Iranian dualism (Zoroastrianism), is unique to Israel (Abraham and Job, 2000 B.C.). Only one rare exception briefly in Egypt (Amenhotep IV, also known as Akhenaten, 1367-1350 or 1386-1361B.C., who worshiped Aten, the sun god, as the only god). See J. Assmann, The Mind of Egypt, pp. 216-217.

This theological concept is expressed in several phrases in the OT.

"no one like YHWH our Elohim," Exod. 8:10; 9:14; Deut. 33:26; 1 Kgs. 8:23
"no other besides Him," Deut. 4:35,39; 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:2; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 45:21; 44:6,8; 45:6,21
"YHWH is one," Deut. 6:4; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19
"none like You," 2 Sam. 7:22; Jer. 10:6
"You alone are God," Ps. 86:10; Isa. 37:16
"Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me," Isa. 43:10
"there is no other; besides Me. . .there is no other," Isa. 45:5,6,22
"He is the source of all things," Isa. 45:7 (cf. Amos 3:6)
"there is none else, no other God," Isa. 45:14,18
"there is none except Me," Isa. 45:21
"there is no other;. . .there is no one like Me," Isa. 46:9

It must be admitted that this crucial doctrine has been revealed in progressive ways. The early statements could be understood as "henotheism" or practical monotheism (there are other gods, i.e., Jos. 24:15; 1 Kgs. 18:21), but only one God for us (cf. Exod. 15:11; 20:2-5; Deut. 5:7; 6:4,14; 10:17; 32:12; 1 Kgs. 8:23; Ps. 83:18; 86:8; 136:1-9).

The first texts that begin to denote a singularity (philosophical monotheism) are early (cf. Exod. 8:10; 9:14; 20:2-3; Deut. 4:35,39; 33:26). The full and compete claims are found in Isaiah 43-46 (cf. 43:10-11; 44:6,8; 45:7,14,18,22; 46:5,9).

The OT depreciates the gods of the nations as

human creations ‒ Deut. 4:28; 2 Kgs. 19:18; Ps. 115:4-8; 135:15-18; Isa. 2:8; 17:8; 37:19; 40:19; 41:7,24,29; 44:10,12; 46:6-7; Jer. 10:3-5; Rev. 9:10
demons ‒ Deut. 32:17; Ps. 106:37; Isa. 8:19; 19:3c; 1 Cor. 10:20; Rev. 9:20
vanity, empty ‒ Deut. 32:21; 2 Kgs. 17:15; Ps. 31:6; Isa. 2:18; 41:29; Jer. 2:5; 10:8; 14:22; Jer. 2:5; 8:19
no gods ‒ Det. 32:21; 2 Chr. 13:9; Isa. 37:19; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 1 Cor. 8:4-5; 10:20; Rev. 9:20

The NT alludes to Deut. 6:4 in Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; and James 2:19. Jesus quotes it as the first commandment in Matt. 22:36-37; Mark 12:29-30; Luke 10:27. The OT, as well as the NT, asserts the reality of other spiritual beings), but only one creator/redeemer God (YHWH, Gen. 1:1).

Biblical monotheism is characterized in the OT by

God is one and unique (ontology is assumed, not specified, cf. Deut. 6:4)
God is personal (cf. Gen. 1:26-27; 3:8)
God is ethical (cf. Exodus 20; 34:6; Neh. 9:17; Ps. 103:8-10)
God created humans in His image (Gen. 1:26-27) for fellowship (i.e., #2). He is a jealous God (cf. Exod. 20:5-6)
From the NT

God has three eternal, personal manifestations
God is perfectly and completely revealed in Jesus (cf. John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 1:2-3)
God's eternal plan for fallen humanity's redemption is the sacrificial offering of His only Son (Isaiah 53; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:6-11; Hebrews;

J.
 
MONOTHEISM

Mankind has always felt there is more to reality than the physical (i.e., affected by things out of their control, such as storms, eclipses, comets, weather, events, death, etc.). Anthropologists tell us they find things in the graves of primitive hominoids that apparently are for the next life, which they viewed as an extension of this life.

The first written culture was Sumer (southern Tigris, Euphrates Rivers), begun about 10,000 ‒ 8,000 B.C. They wrote poems to express their view of the gods and their interacting, much like humans with all their weaknesses (i.e., like the later pantheons of Canaan, Greece, and Rome). Their traditions existed in oral form long before they were written down.

There was a chronological theological development from

animism to
polytheism to
a high god (or dualism)
The concept of "monotheism" (one and only one personal, ethical God with no female consort), not just the "high god" of polytheism or the good god of Iranian dualism (Zoroastrianism), is unique to Israel (Abraham and Job, 2000 B.C.). Only one rare exception briefly in Egypt (Amenhotep IV, also known as Akhenaten, 1367-1350 or 1386-1361B.C., who worshiped Aten, the sun god, as the only god). See J. Assmann, The Mind of Egypt, pp. 216-217.

This theological concept is expressed in several phrases in the OT.

"no one like YHWH our Elohim," Exod. 8:10; 9:14; Deut. 33:26; 1 Kgs. 8:23
"no other besides Him," Deut. 4:35,39; 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:2; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 45:21; 44:6,8; 45:6,21
"YHWH is one," Deut. 6:4; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19
"none like You," 2 Sam. 7:22; Jer. 10:6
"You alone are God," Ps. 86:10; Isa. 37:16
"Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me," Isa. 43:10
"there is no other; besides Me. . .there is no other," Isa. 45:5,6,22
"He is the source of all things," Isa. 45:7 (cf. Amos 3:6)
"there is none else, no other God," Isa. 45:14,18
"there is none except Me," Isa. 45:21
"there is no other;. . .there is no one like Me," Isa. 46:9

It must be admitted that this crucial doctrine has been revealed in progressive ways. The early statements could be understood as "henotheism" or practical monotheism (there are other gods, i.e., Jos. 24:15; 1 Kgs. 18:21), but only one God for us (cf. Exod. 15:11; 20:2-5; Deut. 5:7; 6:4,14; 10:17; 32:12; 1 Kgs. 8:23; Ps. 83:18; 86:8; 136:1-9).

The first texts that begin to denote a singularity (philosophical monotheism) are early (cf. Exod. 8:10; 9:14; 20:2-3; Deut. 4:35,39; 33:26). The full and compete claims are found in Isaiah 43-46 (cf. 43:10-11; 44:6,8; 45:7,14,18,22; 46:5,9).

The OT depreciates the gods of the nations as

human creations ‒ Deut. 4:28; 2 Kgs. 19:18; Ps. 115:4-8; 135:15-18; Isa. 2:8; 17:8; 37:19; 40:19; 41:7,24,29; 44:10,12; 46:6-7; Jer. 10:3-5; Rev. 9:10
demons ‒ Deut. 32:17; Ps. 106:37; Isa. 8:19; 19:3c; 1 Cor. 10:20; Rev. 9:20
vanity, empty ‒ Deut. 32:21; 2 Kgs. 17:15; Ps. 31:6; Isa. 2:18; 41:29; Jer. 2:5; 10:8; 14:22; Jer. 2:5; 8:19
no gods ‒ Det. 32:21; 2 Chr. 13:9; Isa. 37:19; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 1 Cor. 8:4-5; 10:20; Rev. 9:20

The NT alludes to Deut. 6:4 in Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; and James 2:19. Jesus quotes it as the first commandment in Matt. 22:36-37; Mark 12:29-30; Luke 10:27. The OT, as well as the NT, asserts the reality of other spiritual beings), but only one creator/redeemer God (YHWH, Gen. 1:1).

Biblical monotheism is characterized in the OT by

God is one and unique (ontology is assumed, not specified, cf. Deut. 6:4)
God is personal (cf. Gen. 1:26-27; 3:8)
God is ethical (cf. Exodus 20; 34:6; Neh. 9:17; Ps. 103:8-10)
God created humans in His image (Gen. 1:26-27) for fellowship (i.e., #2). He is a jealous God (cf. Exod. 20:5-6)
From the NT

God has three eternal, personal manifestations
God is perfectly and completely revealed in Jesus (cf. John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 1:2-3)
God's eternal plan for fallen humanity's redemption is the sacrificial offering of His only Son (Isaiah 53; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:6-11; Hebrews;

J.
Agent "J" ..... Good work. 101G agree that God is a "Spirit", per John 4:24a. and we must worship him in Spirit, and in 'TRUTH"
101G puts, or enforces the TRUTH. for we can worship God in IGNORANCE. meaning well want get it, ONE MUST KNOW. for the scriptures are true, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

Stay blessed my brother.

101G.
 
Agent "J" ..... Good work. 101G agree that God is a "Spirit", per John 4:24a. and we must worship him in Spirit, and in 'TRUTH"
101G puts, or enforces the TRUTH. for we can worship God in IGNORANCE. meaning well want get it, ONE MUST KNOW. for the scriptures are true, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

Stay blessed my brother.

101G.
You too.
J.
 
Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, YHWH , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "
is this, "WITH", in reference to two separate and distinct person, or the same one person. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

now, is not the "LORD" the Father? and is not the Christ the Last Adam? supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." well who is this quickening spirit? let the bible speak. John 5:21 "For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." let's be clear as to the Son is that quickening spirit. John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." so clearly Jesus as "Son" is that quickening spirit, who is the last as 1 Corinthians 15:45 clearly states.

KNOWING THIS, now back to the QUESTION of the DAY. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the LORD is the First, and he the LORD is ... "WITH" ..... the Last, correct, who is the Lord Jesus. now ...... show..... "TIME", or REVELATION TIME..... Listen, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, the First is the same one Person who is the Last. meaning the Father and the Son is the same one PERSON. because ALSO means, "in addition; too". translation..... in addition too being the Father/LORD, he God is also the Son/Lord. this is what "also" means. and that means there is no TRINITY, .... of three persons, nor any bi-trinities of two persons. so, that leaves only ONE PERSON who is God.

101G.
 
is this, "WITH", in reference to two separate and distinct person, or the same one person.
Jesus and the Angel of YHWH

The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Angel. Remember, an angel is one who is sent without reference to the nature of the one sent.
When 1 Corinthians 10:1 is compared with Exodus 13:21, and Exodus 14:19, 24 the Angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them. It goes on to say that '...at the morning watch, YHWH looked down on the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud...'
Numbers 14:14 says that it was YHWH who was among the people. And Psalm 78:14 says that '...he led them with the cloud by day and all the night with a light of fire.'
It was the Angel who accompanied the nation and the New Testament says that it was the Messiah who accompanied them. He was their spiritual rock. (1 Corinthians 10:4) The association seems clear:
Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15, 18

Jude 5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus*, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
* The reading Ἰησοῦς/Jesus [enjoys] ...the strongest support from a variety of early witnesses (e.g., A B 33 81 1241 1739 1881 2344 pc vg co Or1739mg)... The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005).)

Exodus 12:51 says that YHWH brought the people out of Egypt and yet...

Judges 2:1 says that the Angel of YHWH brought Israel out of Egypt

And 1 Corinthians 10:4-5, 9 says 'all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Messiah. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.... We must not put *Messiah/Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents.'
* Χριστόν (Christon, “Christ”) is attested in the majority of MSS, including many important witnesses of the Alexandrian (𝔓46 1739 1881) and Western (D F G) textvtypes, and other MSS and versions (Ψ latt sy co). The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005).


Numbers 26:65 For YHWH had said of them, “They shall die in the wilderness.” Not one of them was left, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

John 8:58

“εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.” (John 8:58)
הֵשִׁיב לָהֶם יֵשׁוּעַ׃ ״אָמֵן אָמֵן אֲנִי אוֹמֵר לָכֶם, בְּטֶרֶם הֱיוֹת אַבְרָהָם, אֲנִי הוּא.<\p>
"So the Judeans said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple." The lead up to his statement is this:

“So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”” (John 8:19) “And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.” (John 8:23) ““I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”” (John 8:38)

Jesus took their statement to another level. Not only had he seen Abraham but he was in existence not just before Abraham (which would read ἤμην - ‘I was’) but eternally ‘ἐγὼ εἰμί’. Notice that their response was to pick up stones to throw at him just as in John 10:31 where we are explicitly told their response was to his perceived blasphemy “For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make yourself out to be God.”

What does Torah say about blasphemy? “‘Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him...” (Leviticus 24:16).

So in John 8:59 their response to his claim was to try and stone him.

John 8:58 reads '...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι (was/existed) ἐγὼ εἰμί (I myself am/exist).'

The Greek version (LXX) of the Torah (circa 250 BC) translates "אני הוא" in Deuteronomy 32:39 as "‘See now that I am (ἐγώ εἰμι), And there is no god besides Me..." Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, יהוה , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "

And Isaiah 43:10 reads

““You are My witnesses,” declares יהוה, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He (ἐγώ εἰμι)...”
Compare this with the words of Jesus to John in Revelation 1:7:

"When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am (ἐγώ εἰμι) the first and the last..."
Revelation 22:13, 16

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end... I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
Also Isaiah 43:13, 46:4, 48:12. Isaiah 52:6 is interesting because there יהוה says:

"Therefore my people will know my name in that day. For I am (ἐγώ εἰμι/אני הוא), behold I, the one speaking."
There appears to be a subtle pointer here to Exodus 3:14.

In John 10:28-30 we read:

“...I give eternal life to them... and no one will snatch them out of my hand... and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.”
Jesus claims to give eternal life and then puts himself on a par with the Father.

“The Judeans picked up stones again to stone him... “For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.”
Notice it says they picked up stones again. John is referring back to John 8:59 and so tying the charge for both occasions. What did they see as the blasphemy then as well as on this occasion? Claiming deity.

"Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"
Many interpret Jesus’ words as directed towards human rulers but a reading of the source, Psalm 82 shows that he is referring to the divine council in heaven who were judged for injustice (to whom the word of God came). If that is the case then what Jesus is asserting is that Tanakh describes the divine council as ‘gods’ and so he too is God but not merely of the created heavenly class but as ontologically one with the uncreated, all powerful Most High Father. “If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me; but if I do them, though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

He is not just elohim but, as stated in John 5, the unique Son of God.

“Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.” (John 10:28–39)
They knew what he was claiming and that’s why they continued to try and take him.

Here is Psalm 82 “Elohim takes His stand in the divine assembly (עדת-אל); He judges in the midst of the gods (אלהים). How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? ...I said, “You are gods (אלהים אתם), And all of you are sons of the Most High. “Nevertheless you will die like men (כאדם תמותון) And fall like any one of the princes.”

Key points:

Not a hint of the Law of Moses, of Sinai, the nation or Torah, in the Psalm. Jesus points to the Tanakh’s acknowledgement of the existence of other elohim (also called malakhim and ‘sons of elohim’) in the heavenly court. There are divine beings in the Tanakh but only one eternal Elohim who is יהוה and Jesus is one with this Elohim who is both יהוה and Father. The other implication is that he is Lord of this heavenly council. The Tanakh points to one who is Angel and yet God.

Some interpret certain uses of elohim as meaning human judges but Heisler asserts, "However, neither judges nor elders are found in Exodus 21, and the Old Testament never uses the term elohim for human leaders anywhere else. Many presume that Exodus 18 refers to the elders as elohim, but the text never makes that equation. Elohim there refers, as usual, to God. A comparison of Exodus 21:1–6 (אֶל־הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים) with its parallel in Deuteronomy 15:12–18 further weakens this argument." (Michael S. Heiser, The Bible Unfiltered: Approaching Scripture on Its Own Terms (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2017), 63.) “The Jewish authorities got the message, too—they charged him with blasphemy. Now ask yourself, why would they do that if all Jesus was saying was “you mortal Jews get to call yourselves sons of God, and אלהים, so I can, too.” That makes no sense at all.”

Michael S. Heiser, The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, First Edition. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2015)

Jesus also said:

“If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me; but if I do them, though you do not believe me, believe the works..."
Throughout John's Gospel works (ἔργα) refer to Jesus' powerful miracles in terms of God's salvation. They testify to his authenticity: “...for the works which the Father has given me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent me.” (John 5:36). Jesus works are the works of God (John 9:3). He was to accomplish God's work (John 4:34) and did complete the task (John 17:4) of bringing God's salvation (John 6:29). God's work is Jesus' work and this claim resulted in another attempt to kill him: “But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” For this reason therefore the Judeans were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” (John 5:17–18).

It was the works which showed he was the divine Messiah (John 10:24-25). He is the source of eternal life and holds believers in the safety of his hand/power. In fact, to be in his hand is to be in the Father's hand. They are one. The context is clear (John 10:24-30). Again, the Judeans knew what he was claiming (John 10:31, 33). The works legitimize his claim (John 10:32):

““If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”” (John 10:37–38).
Again, they knew what he was claiming and tried to seize him (John 10:39). The works are proof of the unity of the Father and Son: ““Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.” (John 14:11).

In fact to reject the works of Jesus is to hate both the Father and Son (John 15:24).

Conclusion

The one who became a man is self-existing. The language John uses in chapter 1 makes a distinction between the one eternally existing as the Word and his becoming at a point in time, a man. The Word already existed '...in the beginning', reflecting the words of Genesis 1:1 but the Word became human and lived a human life. Yet he claimed something which the religious leaders saw as blasphemy. In John 8:58 he used a phrase which is applied to God in Isaiah (אני הוא - Isaiah 43:13 et al) and is related to Exodus 3:14. 'I am' in this context was a claim to being eternal and only God is eternal. They certainly got his gist. John 1:2 says that οὗτος (he) was in the beginning with God. Throughout John οὗτος is both personal and refers to a person. All things were created 'through him'. John states that he 'beheld' the glory of the λόγος in the person of Jesus. John's testimony of Jesus was that he existed before him, as the unique God who manifests the Father to the world.

The paradox is mind blowing. The eternal becomes temporal. The divine becomes a man - completely... but without ceasing to be self-existent. The immortal becomes mortal. The omniscient becomes limited. The omnipresent becomes focused in time and place. Yet God remains God. We see this throughout Tanakh. The one who fills all things and is present in all time is manifest in one place and time. The God who is one is sender and yet sent. ““This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)

“And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20) “οἴδαμεν δὲ ὅτι ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ἥκει καὶ δέδωκεν ἡμῖν διάνοιαν ἵνα γινώσκωμεν τὸν ἀληθινόν, καὶ ἐσμὲν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ, ἐν τῷ υἱῷ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ. οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἀληθινὸς θεὸς καὶ ζωὴ αἰώνιος.”
To be in the Son is to be in God. In fact he is the true God.
Huw P L Thomas ©2020 (FirePrior)
 
Jesus and the Angel of YHWH

The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Angel.
Wait..... hold on, STOP the press. where is that in the NT? and angel...... maybe a MESSENGER, but an angel? book chapter and verse please..... then we can move on.

101G.
 
It was the Angel who accompanied the nation and the New Testament says that it was the Messiah who accompanied them. He was their spiritual rock. (1 Corinthians 10:4) The association seems clear:
Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15, 18
I hope you're not using these scriptures to support theory that the Lord Jesus is an angel.

if so your first mistake is that the "ROCK" is God..... who sent the angel... listen and learn. Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

are you calling GOD an angel now?

101G.
 
@Johann,
You did get one thing right here in Deuteronomy 32:3 & 4. Christ is God in flesh, the same one PERSON, in a Diversified state while in that flesh and blood.

which again support the point of the bible that God is Jesus the Christ in Flesh.

101G.
 
I hope you're not using these scriptures to support theory that the Lord Jesus is an angel.

if so your first mistake is that the "ROCK" is God..... who sent the angel... listen and learn. Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

are you calling GOD an angel now?

101G.
Oh brother-

1Co 10:3 And all of the same spiritual okhel (food) ate [SHEMOT 16:4,35; DEVARIM 8:3; TEHILLIM 78:24-29],
1Co 10:4 And all of the same spiritual drink drank, for they were drinking from a spiritual TZUR following them [SHEMOT 17:6; BAMIDBAR 20:11; TEHILLIM 78:15; 105:41], and that TZUR was Moshiach.
1Co 10:5 But Hashem was not pleased with most of them, for they were strewn about in the desert, VAYISHCHATEM BAMIDBAR ("then He slaughtered them in the desert" [BAMIDBAR 14:16, 23,29-30; TEHILLIM 78:31).

for they drank, of that spiritual rock that followed them; by which the apostle means not Christ himself, for he went before them as the angel of God's presence, but the rock that typified him; not that the rock itself removed out of its place, and went after them, but the waters out of the rock ran like rivers, and followed them in the wilderness wherever they went, for the space of eight and thirty years, or thereabout, and then were stopped, to make trial of their faith once more; this was at Kadesh when the rock was struck again, and gave forth its waters, which, as the continual raining of the manna, was a constant miracle wrought for them. And this sense of the apostle is entirely agreeable to the sentiments of the Jews, who say, that the Israelites had the well of water all the forty years (k). The

Jerusalem Targum (l) says of the
"well given at Mattanah, that it again became unto them violent overflowing brooks, and again ascended to the tops of the mountains, and descended with them into the ancient valleys.''

And to the same purpose the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziel (m),
"that it again ascended with them to the highest mountains, and from the highest mountains it descended with them to the hills, and encompassed the whole camp of Israel, and gave drink to everyone at the gate of his own dwelling place; and from the high mountains it descended with them into the deep valleys.''
Yea, they speak of the rock in much the same language the apostle does, and seem to understand it of the rock itself, as if that really went along with the Israelites in the wilderness. Thus one of their writers on those words, "must we fetch you water out of this rock?" makes this remark:
"for they knew it not, לפי שהלך הסלע, "for that rock went", and remained among the rocks.''

And in another place it is said (o),
"that the rock became in the form of a beehive; (elsewhere (p) it is said to be round as a sieve and rolled along, ובאת עמהם, "and came with them", in their journeys; and when the standard bearers encamped, and the tabernacle stood still, the rock came, and remained in the court of the tent of the congregation; and the princes came and stood upon the top of it, and said, ascend, O well, and it ascended.''

Now, though in this account there is a mixture of fable, yet there appears something of the old true tradition received in the Jewish church, which the apostle has here respect to.

And the rock was Christ: that is, it signified Christ, it was a type of him. So the Jews (q) say, that the Shekinah is called סלע קדוש, "the holy rock"; and Philo the Jew says (r) of this rock, that the broken rock is η σοφια του θεου, "the wisdom of God". Christ may be compared to the rock for his outward meanness in his parentage and education, in his ministry and audience, in his life and death; and for his height also, being made higher than the kings of the earth, than the angels in heaven, and than the heavens themselves; and for shelter and safety from the wrath of God, and from the rage of men; and for firmness, solidity, and strength, which are seen in his upholding all things by his power, in bearing the sins of his people, and the punishment due unto them, in the support of his church, and bearing up his people under all afflictions and temptations, and in preserving them from a total and final falling away: and a rock he appears to be, as he is the foundation of his church and every believer, against which hell and earth can never prevail; and to it he may be likened for duration, his love being immovable, his righteousness everlasting, his salvation eternal, and he, as the foundation of his church, abiding for ever.


1) “And did all drink the same spiritual drink.” This means spirit provided, divinely provided drink. It stayed with them through their wilderness journey, so does Christ our Water of life, and His Spirit, Joh_4:14; Joh_6:35.

2) "For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:” The Rock which Moses smote and to which he spoke typified Christ, rock, foundation, and sustainer of our salvation, Exo_17:5-6. The smitten Rock speaks of the crucified Christ, from whom the water of Life comes. Moses was to speak to the Rock only the second time; through prayer the saved receive refreshing strength, thus Moses' presumptuous second smiting of the Rock brought God's anger. The Christ was smitten but once for our sins, Num_20:8; Num_20:10-13; Heb_9:25-26; Heb_10:3; Heb_10:11-12.

3) "And that Rock was Christ." The (pneumatikon akolouthouses petras) means "spiritual following Rock" - which is declared to be Christ. They, the Israelites, drank of Christ, as surely as his true followers today drink of Him, Isa_55:11; 1Pe_2:8; Joh_7:37-39; Act_4:11-12; Eph_2:20.


That followed them -- The Jews had a legend that the actual rock Moses struck followed ("accompanied") them throughout their wilderness wanderings, providing water for them.

Jewish Targums speak of a ‘well’ which followed the Israelites in their wanderings. In the Bemidbar Rabbah it is a Rock, in shape like a bee-hive, which rolled. continually forward to accompany the Israelites on their way.
Some rabbinical scholars reject this interpretation, and believe that the expression refers, not to the rock, but the streams which issued from it, and which were gathered into pools wherever they encamped. It was to this, and not to the rock, that the words in Num_21:17 are supposed to be addressed. Some cite Psa_78:16 and Psa_105:41 in support of the same view. (cf. Deu_9:21, "the brook that descended from the mount").

Rock was Christ -- Paul identifies Christ as the rock in a figurative sense, based on his reading of the descriptions of the rock in Exod 17 and Num_21:16-20.
Despite the provision of water in the desert, the people still complained and rebelled against His leadership. Paul urges the Corinthians not to follow the Israelites’ example of complaining about provisions given by the rock (Christ).

Shalom
J.
 
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Messiah and Isaiah 53
There is no doubt that Isaiah chapter 53 is speaking of Israel's Suffering Servant, for the passage immediately preceding this chapter says,

"Behold My Servant will succeed, He will be exalted and lifted up and be very high. Just as many will be astonished over Him, thus His appearance is too marred to be a man's, and His description to be a human's. Thus many nations shall gaze upon Him, and kings will shut their mouths, because that which has never been told to them they will see, and that which they has never been told they will perceive." Isa. 52:13-15


There is also no doubt that Isaiah is speaking about the Messiah according the Talmud and Rashi's commentary on Sanhedrin 98. Therefore what does the reader learn about Messiah from Isaiah 53? This is the subject of this article. The chapter opens up with a call to be faithful to the proclamation that has been heard,

"Who has believed our report and unto who has the Arm/Seed/Son (see the previous article's discussion of this word) been revealed." Isaiah 53:1

The subject of this verse, "the Arm of the L-rd" appears several of places in the prophecy of Israel (see Isaiah 40:10, 51:5, 51:9, 52:10, 59:16, 63.5). It is clear from these passages that the "Arm of the L-rd" is the instrument that G-d uses to bring salvation, redemption, and the kingdom to His people Israel. This is exactly what the Messiah will do; hence, one sees an inherent relationship between the "Arm of the L-rd" and the Messiah.

Although Isaiah uses different language in verse 2, the idea is the same as stated in Isaiah 11:1 (a shoot will come forth from the stump of Jesse),

"He will rise as a sappling before Him, and as a root from arid land; He had neither form nor grandeur, we saw Him, but (He did) not have an appearance that we should desire Him." Isaiah 53:2

The primary message of this verse is that Messiah is not going to be an individual who draws others to Him by some beauty that He possesses. In fact the next verse tells how strongly Messiah will be rejected,

"He was despised and separated from men, a man of pains and someone who experienced sickness; (to the extent) one would hide his face from Him; He was despised and we did not give to Him any consideration. (Literally we did not consider Him) Isaiah 53:3

Hence, Messiah will not only suffer, but His suffering will be to the extent that it will cause Israel to reject Him and not afford to Him any consideration or significance. It is important to point out not only is Messiah rejected, but twice the text uses the word "despised". Messiah will be one for which Israel will have total contempt.

Isaiah makes it clear in the beginning of the next verse that such a view is not based upon an accurate view of truth. For Isaiah writes in Isaiah 53:4,

"In deed our sicknesses He bore our pains He did suffer, but we considered Him stricken- struck by G-d and afflicted."

As stated in the previous article, Rashi disagrees with himself in stating whom this chapter is about. When he writes about verse 4 from its use in the Talmud he states clearly that this chapter is about Messiah. However, in his commentary of Isaiah when he comes to this chapter he states that Israel (the Jewish people) is the subject. It is rather odd that Judaism, for the most part, adheres to Rashi's view from his Isaiah commentary rather than to assert the binding assertion of the Talmud (as the Talmud is considered to be Holy Scripture for Orthodox Judaism). Rashi's view that Israel is the subject is without foundation; the subject of Isaiah 53 is contained in the meaning of verse 4, "bore our sickness and our pains". One needs to ask the question who is being referred to with the word "our"? The obvious answer is Israel. Therefore, how could Israel be the one who bears the pains and the subject of the verse as well?

The first word of Isaiah 53:4 is important in helping the reader understand the proper context. After stating the error of the people in not esteeming Messiah properly and even rejecting and despising Him, verse 4 opens up with the word that the Stone edition of the Hebrew bible translates, "But in truth". This phrase captures the intent of Isaiah. He wants to show how the previous two verses reveal an incorrect response of the people, a response that fails to believe the truth of the prophets. Whereas verse 4 emphasizes that the fact that Messiah's uncomely appearance was due to the suffering that He endured for Israel.

It is significant that this verse tells us that Messiah was "stricken and afflicted by G-d". This means that Messiah being the "Suffering Servant" was part of G-d's plan to bring about Israel's redemption. A point that the Talmud also emphasizes is that Messiah suffered and was afflicted in order to pay the price for our sins.

This is also mentioned in the next verse of our text.

"He was profaned because of our transgressions and bruised because of our iniquities, the chastisement (for) our peace is upon Him and by His wounds we are healed." Isaiah 53:5

I translated the second word in the Hebrew with the word "profaned". The Hebrew word has an idea of desecration. The verse reveal that Messiah became sin for us; that is He who never sinned, but is totally righteous, was afflicted and stricken by G-d because the sins of mankind were laid upon Him so that we could find redemption and peace with G-d (a spiritual healing). The next verse continues to emphasize that it was due to man's sin and guiltiness before G-d that Messiah endured a divine punishment.

"We are all like sheep and have erred, we have turned each man to his own way; and the L-rd inflicted upon Him the iniquity of all of us." Isaiah 53:6

There can be no debate that Messiah suffered vicariously for humanity. Another significant fact is that Messiah did all of this willfully and without any complaining or self-justification. Isaiah beautifully relates this with the following verse,

"He was oppressed and afflicted and He did not open His mouth, as a sheep is led before the slaughter and as a ewe before the shearers is silent, He did not open His mouth." Isaiah 53:7

It is worthy of attention that sacrificial animals are used in this analogy. In the next verse Isaiah speaks that the punishment and suffering finally ended and He (Messiah) was taken away (died). The prophet also speaks that this event was something that those of His generation could not have even discussed; that is, a suffering Messiah was too painful to even be considered. Such sentiments are exactly what the disciple Peter voiced when Jesus revealed G-d's plan for Him to go to Jerusalem and to lay down His life (see Matthew 16:21-22). The verse ends with another statement that Messiah suffered on behalf of His people.

"From imprisonment and judgment He was taken, His generation could not have even discussed for He was cut off from the land of the living because of the transgression of His people; an affliction for them." Isaiah 53:8

Isaiah 53:9 speaks once again of His innocence, yet His willingness to submit to the outcome of sin, not His sin, but as already been discussed, the sins of mankind. This verse is rather difficult to translate if one does not utilize the laws of Hebrew poetry and possess a competent understanding of Hebrew parallelism. In order to assist in a proper translation I will lay out the verse in a manner that shows the parallels.

And he appointed his grave (קברו) with the wicked (את רשועים) [Cf Mark 15:27]
and with a rich one/ruler (את עשיר) in his death (במותיו) [Matthew 27:58, 60]

Because he did no violence and no deception was in his mouth.

The first phrase (His grave was with the wicked) shows that although He never sinned, Messiah suffered the outcome of all sinners and died and was buried. Rabbinical commentators point out that the word translated "rich" is better understood as a ruler as rulers were rich. The end of the second phrase has death in the plural, which does not make any sense until one understands that in Messiah's death, many died. For it says in 2 Corinthians 5:14-15

"…that since one (Messiah) DIED for all, then were all dead:
And that he DIED for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which DIED for them, and rose again.


The next verse reiterates that it was G-d's desire to bring the punishment of sin (death) for all humanity upon the Messiah. It also tells that since Messiah suffered the shame; that the "seed", Israel will eventually understand this truth and be blessed. (The phrase for have one's days lengthened is an idiom for being blessed.) All of this the L-rd desired for His people and because of the redemption that would befall Israel, G-d delighted in afflicting the Messiah. The verse ends with a statement that Messiah will successfully complete His work

"The L-rd delighted (in) crushing Him-He (The L-rd) afflicted (Him)! Since you place guilt on His soul, (the) seed (Israel) will see, he will lengthen days, the delight of the L-rd is in His hand-He (Messiah) will succeed"! Isaiah 53:10

The prophet then makes a statement that the L-rd will see the labor of Messiah and be pleased with it. That Messiah, My Servant (the L-rd's Servant) will succeed in bringing righteousness upon Israel. How will Messiah do this? Verse 11 says boldly, "and their iniquity He suffered."

"The toil of His soul He (The L-rd) will see, He will be satisfied with the knowledge (Lit. His knowledge) that My Servant will justify many, for He suffered their iniquity." Isaiah 53:11

The chapter ends with the following verse,

"Therefore I will divide to him among the multitudes, he will divide the spoils of the mighty in return for having poured out his soul to death, he was numbered among the transgressors and he carried the sin of many and for transgressors he will be afflicted." Isaiah 53:12

This verse informs the reader that as Messiah receives His reward that it will be distributed among those He justified. This reward will be the spoils of mighty nations. This is to fulfill the verse that we shall inherit the earth and that in the last days; i.e. the nations will bring up to Jerusalem their treasures. The reason that we can receive these blessing (both physical and spiritual) is because Messiah did the work of redemption and pour out His Holy Soul unto death, bearing our sins and transgressions. It was for this reason He was afflicted and G-d delighted in doing so.

It is amazing that in the twelve verses of Isaiah chapter fifty-three the prophet tells the reader that Messiah must suffer for sin multiple times, but yet Judaism fails to convey this most important truth.

Author: Dr Baruch Korman
 
To all, concerning Isaiah 41:4,
go to bible hub. click on Lexicon, and then on the strong number in the third colum. "314: coming after or behind" and READ Brown-Driver-Briggs commentary, and come down to b. of time, latter or last here is the LINK, https://biblehub.com/hebrew/314.htm

and this is what it says about the LAST.
b. of time, latter or last (according to context) Exodus 4:8; Deuteronomy 24:3; 2 Samuel 19:12; Isaiah 8:23, of God Isaiah 44:6 ("" רִאשׁוֺן) Isaiah 48:12 (do.) compare Isaiah 41:4; in Genl. subsequent (vaguely), ׳יוֺם א = time to come Isaiah 30:8; Proverbs 31:25 (but Nehemiah 8:18 הַיוֺם ׳הָאַ = the last day), ׳(הָ)אַ (הַ)דּוֺר the following Generation Deuteronomy 29:21; Psalm 48:14; Psalm 78:4; Psalm 78:6; Psalm 102:19, (הָ)אַחֲרֹנִים they that come after Job 18:20 (Ges Schl) Ecclesiastes 1:11; Ecclesiastes 4:16, but Isaiah 41:4 the last,

one PERSON is the Last, who is God. for Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." ............. I ALSO ..."am the Last. so, it's just one person who is First and With the Last, and that's JESUS.

101G.
 
Oh brother
J think, angels are a created .... "CREATURE", God is not created..... Hello? if you say the Lord Jesus is a part of the TRINITY, ... GODHEAD, and yet the Lord Jesus is an angel, then you have a serious problem........ think about it.

101G.
 
Messiah and Isaiah 53
There is no doubt that Isaiah chapter 53 is speaking of Israel's Suffering Servant, for the passage immediately preceding this chapter says,
yes, Isaiah 53 is Jesus, the Christ........... God's "OWN ARM" in flesh. supportive scripture. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

me is his "OWN ARM".... hello?

101G.
 
@Johann,
Think, who is SALVATION? the Lord Jesus... correct. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

hello? anyone home. this cannot be that hard to understand. Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" the ARM of the LORD is the LORD himself.... his, his, his, OWN, ARM? come on.

101G
 
J think, angels are a created .... "CREATURE", God is not created..... Hello? if you say the Lord Jesus is a part of the TRINITY, ... GODHEAD, and yet the Lord Jesus is an angel, then you have a serious problem........ think about it.

101G.
You are familiar with the Definite Article-as used by both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures?
I am talking about the pre-incarnate Messiah-NOT a creature @101G.
 
@Johann,
Think, who is SALVATION? the Lord Jesus... correct. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

hello? anyone home. this cannot be that hard to understand. Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" the ARM of the LORD is the LORD himself.... his, his, his, OWN, ARM? come on.

101G
"So My own arm brought salvation to Me,

 And My wrath upheld Me"

This is related to lines 1-2. YHWH could depend on no human help in bringing salvation. He and He alone could do it (cf. Ezek. 36:22-38). This text may be the imagery the Apostle John used in Revelation 5, only one is worthy to open the book, only one, the crucified, risen Lamb of God/Messiah/Servant!

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].

I assume you are familiar with PROS?-not "pro-state"

Shalom
J.
 
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