Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Johann]

I don’t fit in with orthodox trinitarianism. I did when I was a trinitarian.

I fit In with the unitary orthodoxy of Judaism and the earliest Christians; so-called “primitive Christianity”.

Thank you for a honest reply brother-there are various branches in Judaism-which one do you belong to?

Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist rabbis in the United States and Canada have formed the first religious organization for North America to encompass all branches of Judaism since the Synagogue Council of America fell apart five years ago.

In Israel, Jews are united by homeland but divided into very different groups

There are only about 6 million Jews living in Israel, but there are major religious, social and political chasms that divide them.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Johann]

Thank you for asking.

I don’t fit in with orthodox trinitarianism. I did when I was a trinitarian.

I fit in with the unitary orthodoxy of Judaism and the earliest Christians; so-called “primitive Christianity”.

Do you have extant writings of the primitive Christianity?

 

[Matthias]

Thank you for a honest reply brother-there are various branches in Judaism-which one do you belong to?

Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist rabbis in the United States and Canada have formed the first religious organization for North America to encompass all branches of Judaism since the Synagogue Council of America fell apart five years ago.

In Israel, Jews are united by homeland but divided into very different groups

There are only about 6 million Jews living in Israel, but there are major religious, social and political chasms that divide them.

www.pewresearch.org

I don’t belong to any of those branches of Judaism. I’ve visited and spoken with them from time to time.

Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism.

I belong to the Messiah’s sect of Judaism.

 

[Matthias]

Do you have extant writings of the primitive Christianity?

We’re reading them when we read the New Testament.

 

[civic]

Do you have extant writings of the primitive Christianity?

no just the sources we see being posted here. if there was any it would of been posted like I did with the doctrine of PSA and the Atonement.

 

[Johann]

Do you have extant writings of the primitive Christianity?

Datiim?

 

[APAK]

So is Messiah Elohim equal with YHWH as God ?

Not to steal Matt discussion, so what do you think? Your might already know? and why? Many folks oversimplify by finding a fact in context and then substituting or applying it to another completely different context and call it good or the same thing. This is but one major issue in interpretation scripture. I believe this is a great example of it.

 

[Johann]

We’re reading them when we read the New Testament.

You are reading what brother? I have a honest, open dialogue with YOU-what are you reading besides the New Testament-the Muslims have their Hadith's and Modern Day Judaism have their writings-of the which I would not mention as I am sure you know what I'm referring to.
J.

 

[civic]

• When used of the true God, "Elohim" denotes what is called by many linguists a plural of majesty, honor, or fullness. That is, he is GOD in the fullest sense of the word. He is "GOD of gods" or literally, "ELOHIM of elohim" (Deut 10:17; Ps 136:2).
  
  
  
• In the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Septuagint), where elohim refers to the true God, the singular theosis used.
  
  Genesis 1:1 Hebrew — "In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth."
  Genesis 1:1 Greek — "In the beginning, Theos made the heavens and the earth.
  
  
• The New Testament (which is in the same Koiné Greek as the Septuagint) does not have different words for or spellings of "God." That is, no singular or plural forms of theos. When the NT quotes passages from the Hebrew Bible or the Greek Septuagint that contain the word "God," it always has the singular noun.

In the Hebrew Bible there are four words translated "God": El, Elah, Elo'ah, Elohim.

1. The oldest Semitic word meaning "God" is El. Linguists believe its base meaning is strength or power. "El" is the Strong One or the Deity (God). It occurs 238x in the Bible, and is first used in Genesis 14:18 in the phrase "God Most High" [El Elyon].
   
   The Canaanites called their chief deity El, the Mighty Bull. After the Israelites entered Canaan, they adopted this generic word "El" for their God, though "Elohim" took precedence. In some Canaanite myths, one of El's sons was the notorious Ba'al, the nemesis of the true God throughout much of Israel's history.
   In the Bible, El is often combined in proper names: Isra-El; Shmu-El (Samuel); El-ijah; Immanu-El; Jo-El; Dani-El; Beth-El. It's also found in compounds: El Shaddai, El Elyon, El Roi, El Olam.
   
   
   
   

   2. Elah is the Aramaic word for "God" used in the Aramaic portions of Daniel and Ezra and one verse in Jeremiah (10:11). Its plural form Elahinis used at least once for the true God (Dan 5:23).

2. The word Elo'ah is used some 57 times, mostly in the book of Job. It is likely the singular form behind Elohim.
   
   
   
3. The generic term Elohim refers to the true "God" (2507x),hebrewstreams.org

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

I don’t belong to any of those branches of Judaism. I’ve visited and spoken with them from time to time.

Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism.

I belong to the Messiah’s sect of Judaism.

And do you have historical, verifiable data as to the beginning of the Messiah's sect within Judaism?
J.

 

[civic]

And do you have historical, verifiable data as to the beginning of the Messiah's sect within Judaism?
J.

its his own flavor as we can see. nothing orthodox about his jewish " monotheism"

and you know more about that topic than I do and its clear for me to see the above statement I made is true.

 

[civic]

This has been good today as the cat is out of the bag finally.

A nice and very revealing Q/A session .

 

[Johann]

This has been good today as the cat is out of the bag finally.

A nice and very revealing Q/A session .

I just want to make absolute sure @Matthias can produce extant writings re the beginning of the Messiah's sect brother.
J.

 

[Matthias]

You are reading what brother?

Foremost, the scriptures - > the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. Those are non-negotiables. I read and study them daily and encourage others to do the same.

I have a honest, open dialogue with YOU-what are you reading besides the New Testament-the Muslims have their Hadith's and Modern Day Judaism have their writings-of the which I would not mention as I am sure you know what I'm referring to.
J.

For the past twelve months or so I’ve been re-reading the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. I don’t read them daily. I encourage others to read and study them. Church history shouldn’t be a neglected subject.

Occasionally, I’ve also been reading books which you may not have any particular interest in. For example, I recently read a book titled Rise of the Fourth Reich: Confronting COVID Fascism with a New Nuremberg Trial So This Never Happens Again, co-authored by Steve Deace and Daniel Horowitz.

 

[civic]

I just want to make absolute sure @Matthias can produce extant writings re the beginning of the Messiah's sect brother.
J.

Ditto I’m fully on board with your request

 

[Johann]

Foremost, the scriptures - > the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.



For the past twelve months or so I’ve been re-reading the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers.

Occasionally, I’ve also been reading books which you may not have any particular interest in. For example, I recently read a book titled Rise of the Fourth Reich: Confronting COVID Fascism with a New Nuremberg Trial So This Never Happens Again, co-authored by Steve Deace and Daniel Horowitz.

Correct-I don't have any particular interest there-my question is really simple brother-what extant writings of the historicity of the Messiah's sect can you show me?
J.

 

[Matthias]

And do you have historical, verifiable data as to the beginning of the Messiah's sect within Judaism?
J.

It began with his ministry, circa 30 AD. There are many resources which we can consult to verify the date.

 

[Matthias]

Correct-I don't have any particular interest there-my question is really simple brother-what extant writings of the historicity of the Messiah's sect can you show me?
J.

I directed your attention to the ministry of the Messiah and his apostles. The Messiah himself doesn’t have any writings. The New Testament are the preserved writings of and about his sect.

What sect of Judaism do you think the Messiah was in?

 

[Johann]

It began with his ministry, circa 30 AD. There are many resources which we can consult to verify the date.

So after 30 AD? Just give me the names of the resources brother and we will look them up ourselves-you and me..

 

[Matthias]

So after 30 AD? Just give me the names of the resources brother and we will look them up ourselves-you and me..

The existing writings of his sect run to about 100 AD. The names are the titles of books of the Bible which constitute the canon of the New Testament.