Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

Matthias said:
I directed your attention to the ministry of the Messiah and his apostles. The Messiah himself doesn’t have any writings. The New Testament are the preserved writings of and about his sect.

What sect of Judaism do you think the Messiah was in?
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Not what I would have expected @Matthias-you are referring to writings re primitive Christianity-a sect of Messiah-if it is 30 AD then you must be referring to the writings of the Scriptures and nothing extant on primitive Christianity.
J.
 
Johann said:
Not what I would have expected @Matthias-you are referring to writings re primitive Christianity-a sect of Messiah-if it is 30 AD then you must be referring to the writings of the Scriptures and nothing extant on primitive Christianity.
J.
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The New Testament scriptures are the writings of primitive Christianity.

I would really like to know what sect of Judaism you believe the Messiah was in.
 
Matthias said:
The existing writings of his sect run to about 100 AD. The names are the titles of books of the Bible which constitute the canon of the New Testament.
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As I have already noticed-the writing of the Scriptures in 30 AD up to about 100 AD and no extra sources you can produce as to this sect of Messiah in Judaism-correct brother?
 
Johann said:
As I have already noticed-the writing of the Scriptures in 30 AD up to about 100 AD and no extra sources you can produce as to this sect of Messiah in Judaism-correct brother?
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you would be correct but I know you have plenty of sources. :)
 
civic said:
  • When used of the true God, "Elohim" denotes what is called by many linguists a plural of majesty, honor, or fullness. That is, he is GOD in the fullest sense of the word. He is "GOD of gods" or literally, "ELOHIM of elohim" (Deut 10:17; Ps 136:2).


  • In the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Septuagint), where elohim refers to the true God, the singular theosis used.

    Genesis 1:1 Hebrew — "In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth."
    Genesis 1:1 Greek — "In the beginning, Theos made the heavens and the earth.

  • The New Testament (which is in the same Koiné Greek as the Septuagint) does not have different words for or spellings of "God." That is, no singular or plural forms of theos. When the NT quotes passages from the Hebrew Bible or the Greek Septuagint that contain the word "God," it always has the singular noun.
In the Hebrew Bible there are four words translated "God": El, Elah, Elo'ah, Elohim.


  1. The oldest Semitic word meaning "God" is El. Linguists believe its base meaning is strength or power. "El" is the Strong One or the Deity (God). It occurs 238x in the Bible, and is first used in Genesis 14:18 in the phrase "God Most High" [El Elyon].

    The Canaanites called their chief deity El, the Mighty Bull. After the Israelites entered Canaan, they adopted this generic word "El" for their God, though "Elohim" took precedence. In some Canaanite myths, one of El's sons was the notorious Ba'al, the nemesis of the true God throughout much of Israel's history.
    In the Bible, El is often combined in proper names: Isra-El; Shmu-El (Samuel); El-ijah; Immanu-El; Jo-El; Dani-El; Beth-El. It's also found in compounds: El Shaddai, El Elyon, El Roi, El Olam.



    ​
    2. Elah is the Aramaic word for "God" used in the Aramaic portions of Daniel and Ezra and one verse in Jeremiah (10:11). Its plural form Elahinis used at least once for the true God (Dan 5:23).

  2. The word Elo'ah is used some 57 times, mostly in the book of Job. It is likely the singular form behind Elohim.


  3. The generic term Elohim refers to the true "God" (2507x),hebrewstreams.org
hope this helps !!!
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I guess you are replying to my recent post here. There's no need to rehash the differences of the use of the OT term El - Elohim, and theos of the NT, with or w/o a definite article affront. What does need to be rehashed time and time again however is how they are used in the OT and NT in their contextual environments. This part always seems to be lacking on these types of sites, and not just here. It's great to pull off the shelves the books of law and quote it even without reading the words from the actual page, although these words have no life in themselves without a spirit and application.

So to simply answer your ? to Matthias, yes, the human Messiah is Elohim/theos and no, he is not. It's not a riddle. It depends on the context and the common context it is used throughout scripture. You know there are basically 3 ways that one is called Elohim/theos 1. as a false god, 2., as the true one God and 3., then the rest and the many, those in the service of the one true God, as was Moses and Jesus.

Moses was made Elohim for Pharaoh at the will of YHWH the only true (pl.) Elohim. The same for Yahshua. He was made into Elohim or theos for all peoples at the will of his Father Elohim. And it should be quite obvious then why it is the case.

That awkward word 'agency' pops up again and it applies here as well. The agents and elohim(s) of the one true Elohim, YHWH
 
APAK said:
I guess you are replying to my recent post here. There's no need to rehash the differences of the use of the OT term El - Elohim, and theos of the NT, with or w/o a definite article affront. What does need to be rehashed time and time again however is how they are used in the OT and NT in their contextual environments. This part always seems to be lacking on these types of sites, and not just here. It's great to pull off the shelves the books of law and quote it even without reading the words from the actual page, although these words have no life in themselves without a spirit and application.

So to simply answer your ? to Matthias, yes, the human Messiah is Elohim/theos and no, he is not. It's not a riddle. It depends on the context and the common context it is used throughout scripture. You know there are basically 3 ways that one is called Elohim/theos 1. as a false god, 2., as the true one God and 3., then the rest and the many, those in the service of the one true God, as was Moses and Jesus.

Moses was made Elohim for Pharaoh at the will of YHWH the only true (pl.) Elohim. The same for Yahshua. He was made into Elohim or theos for all peoples at the will of his Father Elohim. And it should be quite obvious then why it is the case.

That awkward word 'agency' pops up again and it applies here as well. The agents and elohim(s) of the one true Elohim, YHWH
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no one worshipped moses all Jesus followers worshipped Him as God. Otherwise these Jews were guilty of idolatry and Jesus would of been sinning by allowing them to worship Him
 
Matthias said:
Christianity doesn’t pre-date the Messiah’s ministry.

It’s a pretty common saying that Christianity is the daughter of Judaism.
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I asked you a simple question-show me verifiable, historical data on this particular sect of Messiah in Judaism, your answer-the Scriptures.
Correct brother?
 
Wrangler said:
Somehow it makes sense to them that God (Jesus) has a God.
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Somehow it makes sense to them that someone whose God isn’t the Trinity is a trinitarian.

If I had taught something like that my employment would have been terminated on the spot. (And rightfully so.)
 
APAK said:
That awkward word 'agency' pops up again and it applies here as well. The agents and elohim(s) of the one true Elohim, YHWH
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Oh no, plenty Scripture reference I can give you-in Hebrew if you would like -that Yehoshuwa Ha- Mashiach is YHVH.
Problem as I see it here is that somehow Messiah is inferior-just a Man, Ben of Adam-Ben of YHVH.
Nothing more, nothing less, and to me this is tantamount of blasphemy-as the Scriptures hold a high Christological view of Yeshua ben David.
As always-the Deity of Messiah is under attack.
No need to reply.
J.
 

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