Irresistible Grace

[synergy]

That passage is about the elect, they are by nature ungodly, and they will be saved and effectually called by Grace

Wrong!

It is not nature that sins or is ungodly, it is us as a person who sins. God did not create a sinful ungodly nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves. Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

If human nature is ungodly sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?

Newsflash! It's not human nature that sins. People sin.

 

[civic]

Wrong!

It is not nature that sins or is ungodly, it is us as a person who sins. God did not create a sinful ungodly nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves. Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

If human nature is ungodly sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?

Newsflash! It's not human nature that sins. People sin.

Amen to the TRUTH !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

But even if our Gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden [only] to those who are perishing and obscured [only] to those who are spiritually dying and veiled [only] to those who are lost.
4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers’ minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
2 Corinthians 4:3–4

First, I don't recognize this translation at the moment. Can you share. There are problems with this translation.

Second, Notice the "if" in this verse? "If" is an indeterminate reference. Notice the "our" of this statement. Paul was appealing to what he preached. HIS Gospel. Not what any other man preached. HIS Gospel. You can not rip these comments from their context.

Paul is appeal to that fact he had clearly and explicitly preached the Gospel to all men. That the only possible reason that "some" had not "known" is because their minds were blinded. Yes, there are some that their minds are blinded. However, that is not the case with the vast majority of those that hear the Gospel.

Unbelievers are comprised of the

1. Blinded. (John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.)
2. Those that hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
3. Those that fear others..... (Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. )

The Gospel not only enlightens, It damns those who have the knowledge of God and yet refuse to deal with it.

There are many reason why some might be blinded. Some are willing ignorant. Some have "closed their eyes". Etc.

I appreciate your systematic approach. Thank you!

 

[civic]

But even if our Gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden [only] to those who are perishing and obscured [only] to those who are spiritually dying and veiled [only] to those who are lost.
4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers’ minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
2 Corinthians 4:3–4


Apparently the Bible teaches That some do you have the inability to believe the gospel, the good news about Jesus. Those who are perishing are the ones who will not come to God by faith in Christ. They remain hardened in their sin, unforgiven by God. Their current destiny is eternal death and separation from God. They are truly dying and unable to understand even the clearest teaching about God's glory. They have a total inability to come.

Paul in Romans 1:16 declares the Gospel to be “the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes.” This must mean that apart from the power of God in the Gospel, no one has strength on his own to turn to God. And the ones that believe are the ones that God chose, The Elect. That is why they have the power to turn to God because God chose them and enabled them to come to Him.

If man is totally depraved, cannot seek God, cannot think a right though about God, cannot know truth as calvinists falsely claim, then why did God have to say 3 times He had to give these unbelieving reprobates over ?

Also how can these reprobates suppress the truth since they are dead and incapable of knowing the truth ?

See the oxymorons with such a the calvinists systematic and presuppositions ?

Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

Several reasons why the doctrine of TD is not true

1-they suppressed the truth- one has to know the truth to suppress the truth
2-they knew God, He was self evident to them
3-God was understood to them
4-they exchanged the truth
5-they did not retain the knowledge of God, it was not worthwhile for them
6- Therefor from all the above facts God declares 3 times that He gave them over
7- God doesn't need to give anyone over who is already completely unable, enable, completely and totally depraved with no ability's to do otherwise

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Totally Depraved would imply that one is never able to do what is right and lawful; scripture states that man naturally can keep the law.

the Calvinist Barnes below .

Who hold the truth - Who "keep back," or "restrain" the truth. The word translated "hold" here, sometimes means to "maintain," to "keep," to "observe" 1 Corinthians 7:30; 2 Corinthians 6:12; but it also means to "hold back, to detain, to hinder." Luke 4:42, "the people sought him (Jesus), and came to him, and stayed him." (Greek, the same as here.) Plm 1:13, "whom I would have "retained" with me," etc.; 2 Thessalonians 2:6, "and now ye know what "withholdeth," etc. In this place it means also that they held back, or restrained the truth, by their wickedness.

The truth - The truth of God, in whatever way made known, and particularly, as the apostle goes on to say, what is made known by the light of nature. The truth pertaining to his perfections, his Law, etc. They hold it back. or restrain its influence

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

7 So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved,

"I am the door of the sheep" - "If anyone [sheep] enters through me [door]"

There are no "ifs" here:

14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

If anyone....

verse 14 establishes sheep from different folds. There are many folds but only One flock. This doesn't establish what you claim is actually true. It simply states the means of salvation. Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong!

It is not nature that sins or is ungodly, it is us as a person who sins. God did not create a sinful ungodly nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves. Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

If human nature is ungodly sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?

Newsflash! It's not human nature that sins. People sin.

No its right. That passage refers to the called elect. Rom 1:7

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:28-30,33

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

When they are born into this world, their condition is as ungodly sinners.

 

[Biblelesson]

First, I don't recognize this translation at the moment. Can you share. There are problems with this translation.

Second, Notice the "if" in this verse? "If" is an indeterminate reference. Notice the "our" of this statement. Paul was appealing to what he preached. HIS Gospel. Not what any other man preached. HIS Gospel. You can not rip these comments from their context.

Paul is appeal to that fact he had clearly and explicitly preached the Gospel to all men. That the only possible reason that "some" had not "known" is because their minds were blinded. Yes, there are some that their minds are blinded. However, that is not the case with the vast majority of those that hear the Gospel.

Unbelievers are comprised of the

1. Blinded. (John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.)
2. Those that hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
3. Those that fear others..... (Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. )

The Gospel not only enlightens, It damns those who have the knowledge of God and yet refuse to deal with it.

There are many reason why some might be blinded. Some are willing ignorant. Some have "closed their eyes". Etc.

I appreciate your systematic approach. Thank you!

The Amplified Bible

And I thank you for your appreciation. I'm here to learn from others as in iron sharpening iron. I don't believe I have it all figured out.

 

[Biblelesson]

If man is totally depraved, cannot seek God, cannot think a right though about God, cannot know truth as calvinists falsely claim, then why did God have to say 3 times He had to give these unbelieving reprobates over ?

Also how can these reprobates suppress the truth since they are dead and incapable of knowing the truth ?

See the oxymorons with such a the calvinists systematic and presuppositions ?

Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

Several reasons why the doctrine of TD is not true

1-they suppressed the truth- one has to know the truth to suppress the truth
2-they knew God, He was self evident to them
3-God was understood to them
4-they exchanged the truth
5-they did not retain the knowledge of God, it was not worthwhile for them
6- Therefor from all the above facts God declares 3 times that He gave them over
7- God doesn't need to give anyone over who is already completely unable, enable, completely and totally depraved with no ability's to do otherwise

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Totally Depraved would imply that one is never able to do what is right and lawful; scripture states that man naturally can keep the law.

the Calvinist Barnes below .

Who hold the truth - Who "keep back," or "restrain" the truth. The word translated "hold" here, sometimes means to "maintain," to "keep," to "observe" 1 Corinthians 7:30; 2 Corinthians 6:12; but it also means to "hold back, to detain, to hinder." Luke 4:42, "the people sought him (Jesus), and came to him, and stayed him." (Greek, the same as here.) Plm 1:13, "whom I would have "retained" with me," etc.; 2 Thessalonians 2:6, "and now ye know what "withholdeth," etc. In this place it means also that they held back, or restrained the truth, by their wickedness.

The truth - The truth of God, in whatever way made known, and particularly, as the apostle goes on to say, what is made known by the light of nature. The truth pertaining to his perfections, his Law, etc. They hold it back. or restrain its influence

hope this helps !!!

As a result of Adam’s fall and rebellion, he lost his native ability to will that which is good. “Giving over to a reprobate mind” means that God consigns mankind to live in a condition that can only be undone by the gospel. It can only be undone by a powerful, regenerative work of the Holy Spirit to renew the will, to renew the affections, and to give a new heart.

The natural man only does evil all the time from the point of view of God’s holiness. This doesn’t mean that every reprobate is as reprobate as he possibly can be; there are gradations of sin. But all of mankind is fallen. All of mankind is in a state of sin and inability, and only the gospel can liberate them from that condition.

I think that Paul is saying in Romans 1:28 that all of mankind have been given over to a reprobate mind. And from all of mankind he chose who would believe in him, He elected them.

I think you just don't understand Calvinism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

As a result of Adam’s fall and rebellion, he lost his native ability to will that which is good. “Giving over to a reprobate mind” means that God consigns mankind to live in a condition that can only be undone by the gospel. It can only be undone by a powerful, regenerative work of the Holy Spirit to renew the will, to renew the affections, and to give a new heart.

The natural man only does evil all the time from the point of view of God’s holiness. This doesn’t mean that every reprobate is as reprobate as he possibly can be; there are gradations of sin. But all of mankind is fallen. All of mankind is in a state of sin and inability, and only the gospel can liberate them from that condition.

I think that Paul is saying in Romans 1:28 that all of mankind have been given over to a reprobate mind. And from all of mankind he chose who would believe in him, He elected them.

I think you just don't understand Calvinism.

He was a Calvinist for over 40 years. He still fellowships with Calvinists. I've been dealing with Calvinists for 35 years. We all understand the doctrine well. We know the talking points before you ever bring them up. We've spent countless words dealing with them. I'm just saying this to let you know we are not novices.

 

[Biblelesson]

He was a Calvinist for over 40 years. He still fellowships with Calvinists. I've been dealing with Calvinists for 35 years. We all understand the doctrine well. We know the talking points before you ever bring them up. We've spent countless words dealing with them. I'm just saying this to let you know we are not novices.

Oh I'm sure you do Understand your point of view quite well. And believe me it never entered my mind that anyone here being a novice. I just try to answer posts the best I can and please forgive me as sometimes I throw in a little humor. Like the statement.. you just don't understand Calvinism. Was my attempt at humor.

I'll have to talk to @civic About why he's no longer a Calvinist. Here comes another attempted humor. "I wonder who Bewitched him"?

But seriously I'm sure he has some good reasons why and I'd love to hear them.

 

[Biblelesson]

That is of their own choosing by rejecting God over time, then God hardens them in that condition permanently- the text says 3 different time that God gave them over to a depraved mind, a reprobate mind.

cause- refusing to believe, obey and follow God, living in sin and over a long period of time
effect- God gives them over to their own rebellion permanently, a reprobate mind.

hope this helps !!!

Yes God is sovereign he hardens some and chooses others. The Bible is quite plain that all of mankind falls into one of two camps: sons of God or sons of the devil.

Col. 1:12-13, Paul contrasts the “saints in light” who were delivered from “the power of darkness.” And, in fact, those are the very words Jesus used to describe Paul’s predestined ministry, as a “chosen vessel.”

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:14-18

 

[Aeliana]

Yes God is sovereign he hardens some and chooses others. The Bible is quite plain that all of mankind falls into one of two camps: sons of God or sons of the devil.

Col. 1:12-13, Paul contrasts the “saints in light” who were delivered from “the power of darkness.” And, in fact, those are the very words Jesus used to describe Paul’s predestined ministry, as a “chosen vessel.”

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:14-18

What about the love of God. There's a thread on this form Called "In Calvinism... where is the love?"

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/in-calvinism-where-is-the-love.1012/

How would you respond to that?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oh I'm sure you do Understand your point of view quite well. And believe me it never entered my mind that anyone here being a novice. I just try to answer posts the best I can and please forgive me as sometimes I throw in a little humor. Like the statement.. you just don't understand Calvinism. Was my attempt at humor.

I'll have to talk to @civic About why he's no longer a Calvinist. Here comes another attempted humor. "I wonder who Bewitched him"?

But seriously I'm sure he has some good reasons why and I'd love to hear them.

Got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

There is no joy and comfort in believing that God orchestrates all things to the benefit of those who claim they are chosen. I've seen it happen over the years. The Truth makes people free. We just need to learn the Truth.

 

[Biblelesson]

What about the love of God. There's a thread on this form Called "In Calvinism... where is the love?"

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/in-calvinism-where-is-the-love.1012/

How would you respond to that?

I haven't looked at the thread yet but I promise I will. But off the top of my head I would say that we are incapable of generating positive love toward God unless He first moves on our hearts, removes that stone of indifference and rebellion, and revives us to “newness of life,” forming the capability to love God within us. God must first grant us the ability to do what we simply cannot.

And the only people to whom He grants such ability are those whom He has chosen as recipients of His gracious love. We love Him in reaction to His love.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes God is sovereign he hardens some and chooses others. The Bible is quite plain that all of mankind falls into one of two camps: sons of God or sons of the devil.

Col. 1:12-13, Paul contrasts the “saints in light” who were delivered from “the power of darkness.” And, in fact, those are the very words Jesus used to describe Paul’s predestined ministry, as a “chosen vessel.”

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:14-18

Why the appeal to Paul? Do you feel everyone is just like Paul?

Luk 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

To whom much is given, much is required. God told Elijah that he had 7000 replacements for him.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I haven't looked at the thread yet but I promise I will. But off the top of my head I would say that we are incapable of generating positive love toward God unless He first moves on our hearts, removes that stone of indifference and rebellion, and revives us to “newness of life,” forming the capability to love God within us. God must first grant us the ability to do what we simply cannot.

And the only people to whom He grants such ability are those whom He has chosen as recipients of His gracious love. We love Him in reaction to His love.

Do you love your own family? Did you love them before you were "converted"? I know I did.

 

[Biblelesson]

Got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

There is no joy and comfort in believing that God orchestrates all things to the benefit of those who claim they are chosen. I've seen it happen over the years. The Truth makes people free. We just need to learn the Truth.

I'm sure as time goes by will understand each other much better. I like your reference to the truth. That's why we're here to learn the truth. I can only share the truth of what I've been taught and if I'm wrong hopefully I'll be the first to admit it. This thought just came to my mind.

That Jesus died on the cross for us and I don't have to die on any hill of theology. Theology is not going to save me, only the blood of Jesus will do that.

 

[Biblelesson]

Why the appeal to Paul? Do you feel everyone is just like Paul?

Luk 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

To whom much is given, much is required. God told Elijah that he had 7000 replacements for him.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Will he is my favorite, I think before his trip to Damascus he was pretty much like everyone else. And certainly God can Choose to use any of his creations to do his will. God can get the rocks to cry out If no one wants to praise him. Luke 19:28-40

Yes I agree much has been given to us but Jesus told us not to worry because He tells us. Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

 

[praise_yeshua]

Will he is my favorite, I think before his trip to Damascus he was pretty much like everyone else. And certainly God can Choose to use any of his creations to do his will. God can get the rocks to cry out If no one wants to praise him. Luke 19:28-40

Absolutely.

Paul was unique. Others are unique. I think of how God has fit together the "Body of Christ". Paul was included in the eyes and ears of that Body. He held a rank and privilege that not every man held. His work was essential to edification of the Church of God. As such, God personally intervened in His life. God hasn't done this for many people. God has even done this for most anyone I believe would qualify as one of the "Elect". Just saying that there isn't an direct application here for everyone.

Yes I agree much has been given to us but Jesus told us not to worry because He tells us. Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

We all qualify for this. We are labor and are heavy laden.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

 

[Biblelesson]

Do you love your own family? Did you love them before you were "converted"? I know I did.

It's funny you should ask as I've answered that question several times before. Usually after I give my answer I give it bewildered stare in return.

So here's my answer. Before I was converted I didn't know how to love...at all. At least as far as human beings were concerned. I've had a few Chevrolets that I loved especially a '67 Corvette. And Harley's don't even give me started on them.

I didn't even love myself because I realized how selfish and self-centered I was. All I did was use people and I was good at pretending I loved them If need be. But I knew I didn't.

But the love of God changes that. Once I became a child of God and learned how much He loved me I began to love others.
It amazes me how much I love people nowadays.