psst hombre i compared it to BTW they have a higher power also
Irresistible Grace
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- Start date
lol hombre i gave the bad stuff up over 35 years ago maybe longer . i am free and free indeed
Election is in Christ and unless you are united with Christ based upon faith you are not elect
PS
Tenets of a libertarian free will
The Five Tenets of Soft Libertarianism
Ultimate responsibility (UR) Ultimate responsibility indicates the ultimate origin of decisions.
Agent causation (AC) A person is the source and origin of his choices.
The principle of alternative possibilities (AP) At crucial times, the ability to choose or refrain from choosing is genuinely available.
The reality of will-setting moments A person does not always have the ability to choose to the contrary. Certain free choices result in the loss of freedom.
The distinction between freedom of responsibility and freedom of integrity The Bible presents freedom as a permission (the freedom of responsibility) and as a power (the freedom of integrity).
From the works of libertarian philosophers such as Hugh McCann, Timothy O’Connor, and particularly Robert Kane, five central tenets of soft libertarianism can be gleaned. Thus equipped, soft libertarianism provides a more complete picture of human choice than soft determinism, and thus a more accurate one. Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense, but the limits of this ability are decided by his character. While a determinist argues a person’s choice is determined by his character, soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available. Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set. Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose, but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice. And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.
The first tenet of soft libertarianism is ultimate responsibility (UR). Question: how does a person know the ultimate source of his sins or the ultimate source of his salvation? Answer: whoever is ultimately responsible. And the Bible makes clear that we are responsible for our sins and God is responsible for our salvation. We receive all the blame and He receives all the credit. As Kane states, “The basic idea is that the ultimate responsibility lies where the ultimate cause is.” Ultimate “buck-stopping” responsibility indicates ultimate origin.
Kane argues that libertarians make a mistake by focusing too quickly on the criteria of alternative possibilities (AP), i.e., the ability to do otherwise, and contends rather that we should begin with the notion of ultimate responsibility. UR focuses on the grounds or the sources of a person’s actions or choices. UR, rather than AP, should be the initial feature of soft libertarianism. And unless one wants to posit an infinite regress of past causes or (for the theist) he wants the chain of responsibility to go back to God, then he has to understand that moral agents are responsible in an ultimate sense. Kane concludes, “Therein, I believe, lies the core of the traditional ‘problem of free will.’ ”
Significantly, the UR condition does not require that every act be done of our own free will (thus, to an extent “partially vindicating” the compatibilist position). However, it is only a partial vindication, because UR argues that we “could have done otherwise” with respect to some past choices that formed our present character.
UR implies the second tenet: agent causation (AC). If a human being is found guilty when he stands before God, it is because he is the origin of his sins. His sins belong to him—he owns them. This is why everyone outside of Christ is damned. Though we inherited Adam’s corruption and are judged federally in him, in a real way each person is the source and origin of his own rebellion.
When the question is asked, “Why did Adam sin?” the soft libertarian answer is, “Because he chose to sin.” No other or further answer is needed. God placed him in an environment where sin was possible, but God is not the cause of Adam’s sin. In fact, God is not culpable in any way. Satan is certainly guilty of enticing the original couple, but in the final analysis the blame for the actual sin they committed does not fall on him. No, Scripture consistently testifies that “by one man sin entered into the world” (Rom 5:12 KJV).
AC stands in contrast to event causation. Rather than functioning simply as a link in a chain of events, a causal agent operates as the impetus for new causal chains. This creative ability reflects the imago dei. As Robert Saucy states, “The human being is like God in that he has the ability to create thoughts and actions that have no determinative cause outside of the self.” In other words, humans are causal agents with the capacity to originate choices. Saucy goes on to say that this ability constitutes what might be termed “a little citadel of creativity ex nihilo.”
After establishing the tenets of UR and AC, then and only then are we ready to consider the third tenet: the principle of alternative possibilities (AP). A necessary component for liability is that, at a significant point in the chain of events, the ability to choose or refrain from choosing had to genuinely be available.
Compatibilists work from the intuition that if a choice is undetermined then it must be capricious. Indeterminism is equated with inexplicable choices in which an agent’s will is disconnected from the rest of his person, resulting in random and chaotic choices that bewilder even the agent. In this scenario, free will resembles something akin to Tourette syndrome or epilepsy rather than a moral ability. But as determinists admit, in this field intuitions must be questioned.
Kane responds by arguing, “It is a mistake to assume that undetermined means ‘uncaused.’ ” Rather, one must think of the effort to choose and indeterminism as “fused,” not that indeterminism is something that occurs before or after the choice. The fact that the choice is indeterminate doesn’t make it any less the agent’s choice, nor does it make the choice simply a matter of chance or luck. So the objection that undetermined choices are “happenings” is question-begging. It assumes what the objector wishes to prove: that all choices are determined. However, concurrence does not require AP to always be present, which leads to the next point.
The fourth tenet of soft libertarianism is the recognition of will-setting moments. This point sets soft libertarianism apart from libertarianism as generally understood. I argue, like Kane, that libertarian freedom does not entail that a person must always have the ability to choose to the contrary. Certain free choices result in the loss of freedom. An obvious example is someone jumping off a cliff. Halfway down he might change his mind, but he does not possess the ability to choose otherwise. AP does not always have to be present, but only during those times when the choices we make form us into who we are. Only then do we need to be free in a libertarian sense. The “will-setting” or “self-forming” actions occur at those crucial, difficult, or critical junctures.
Consider how we are torn during times of moral indecision. However, whether it is Luther submitting to the authority of Scripture or Pharaoh hardening his heart, those soul-searching moments are also times of self-formation. During these times the outcome is uncertain because our wills are divided by conflicting desires. Yet the decision made at that time affects who we are as persons, so that later similar decisions do not produce a similar conflict. How we choose changes us so that, for better or worse, that choice no longer affects us in the same way. This is the fundamental principle underlying the practice of utilizing the spiritual disciplines for character formation. The reality of will-setting moments implies the next tenet.
The fifth tenet of soft libertarianism is the distinction between the two types of ability: freedom of responsibility and freedom of integrity. As stated earlier, freedom can be understood in two ways: as a permission and as an ability. The Bible often presents freedom as a permission, a privilege, or a right to choose. An example of freedom of permission is when Paul instructs that a Christian widow is “free to be married to anyone she wants,” as long as she marries a believer (1 Cor 7:39). This is what we would generally call “liberty,” and the Bible provides many examples of this type of freedom (2 Cor 9:7; Phlm 14).
Freedom of permission presupposes that a person has the second type of freedom, i.e., the ability to make a reasonable choice. This is why the Bible also presents freedom as a power or ability to make a choice. As an ability, the Bible teaches that there are types of ability: freedom of responsibility and freedom of integrity. Freedom of responsibility is the ability to be the originator of a decision, choice, or action. Because a human being is the agent or cause of an action, he is responsible for the moral nature of that action and its consequences. When a situation arises that requires a decision, by definition the freedom of responsibility is the ability to respond. Take for example, if a man hears someone in the lake calling for help. Someone who cannot swim has a different level of responsibility from the one who simply chooses not to respond.
This brings up the notion of freedom of integrity, an important concept to soft libertarianism. Freedom of integrity is the ability to act in a way that is consistent with what a person knows to be the right thing to do. This category consists of the freedom to be the kind of person one wants to be. It is the ability to translate one’s values into action. It speaks of the level of development one must reach to be a fully functioning and mature person. This is a crucial component to our understanding of freedom. More than anything else, the Bible presents freedom to be the ability to do that which is right.
This concept of freedom pays more attention to the concept of “person” than to free will because ascriptions of personal integrity depend on an analysis of personal identity. The doctrine of the “age of accountability” is based on the notion of freedom of integrity. It is the belief that a child must reach a certain point of mental, emotional, and spiritual development before he is accountable.
The notion of the freedom of integrity speaks to the conflict one often has between his values and his desires (see Romans 7). Unless one is completely pathological, sin and failure to live according to his values will result in the loss of peace of mind that comes from living with integrity.
It is easy to understand the freedom of integrity on a trivial level: freedom of integrity enables one to exercise as he should, or to not procrastinate about an assignment. The principle of freedom of integrity indicates that self-discipline is actually a profound type of freedom. As such, the relationship between free will and freedom of personal integrity can be confusing. It is commonplace to be morally responsible but lack freedom of personal integrity. Free will addresses the minimal conditions for responsibility, while freedom of personal integrity goes beyond that.
Here is the truly dangerous thing: a person can have enough freedom to be responsible yet lack (or lose) the freedom of integrity. The Bible says all have the freedom of moral responsibility but not all have the freedom of integrity.
For example, in Rom 7:13–25, Paul describes the condition of being morally responsible but lacking in moral integrity. Other clear examples are the addicted and the pathological. Heroin addicts, compulsive gamblers, and pedophiles may have lost the integrity to say no to these vices, but they are still responsible for their actions. As drug addicts illustrate, it is possible to lose this type of freedom. This loss does not exempt the person from accountability for his actions. Loss of this ability means that a person can still be morally responsible even though he is no longer capable of choosing otherwise. In fact, in the very important area of the ability to respond to God, this is the exact condition of every lost person outside the grace of God.
The progressive sanctification of a believer and his growth in grace can be understood in terms of freedom of integrity. In many ways, the process of being conformed to the image of Christ is an incremental restoration of the freedom of integrity. Sanctification is the restoring of a Christian’s ability to bring his life into conformity with the will of God. This is true freedom—the ability to live a life that is pleasing to God. Christ promises the freedom of integrity (John 8:36), which is the ability to obey the will of God.
The incremental nature of progressive sanctification should be a hint to us about the incremental nature of the freedom of integrity. That is, freedom of integrity is not something which operates like a light switch—all or nothing; on or off. Rather, it seems to be something gained or lost in increments. There appear to be gradations of the freedom of integrity.
Keathley, Kenneth. Salvation and Sovereignty: A Molinist Approach (pp. 73-79). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
brightfame52
Well-known member
It says it, you cant see it. And the scripture teaches irresistible grace, along with the other points of TULIP
Biblelesson
Active member
That's good to hear Amigo. I'm glad you're no longer a borracho. So you can have an occasional drink today and still maintain your sobriety? Or do you practice total abstinence?
Notice that noone is called to be a reprobate so your sinful nature view crashes and burns once again. Stop embarrassing yourself with your promotion of a pagan god.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Sorry if it said it you would be able to post it but no one has been able to post a verse stating he died for the elect alone
Biblelesson
Active member
Good morning Tom how was your sunrise? I'm glad to see you like to read books so do I. Here's a wonderful one, This is chapter 7 on Regeneration.
Because the antipathy of our heart to God’s claims is inherent and beyond our power to change, salvation must of necessity begin with an act of regeneration whereby our self-deifying heart is radically changed into a God-glorifying heart. Exploring the universe or eliminating war, crime, poverty and disease are all of secondary importance in comparison with the main problem of changing fallen human nature. Although on the verge of conquering space, man has never conquered himself! He can be bestial, even devilish in his cruelty, unrestrained in his sexual lusts, and utterly unscrupulous in his quest for power. The love of money can drive him to all sorts of evils. It is sad, but true, that man is imprisoned by his own ungodly and selfish passions.
Can human nature be changed? This is a vitally important question and the answer is an emphatic Yes. There is hope of radical inner renewal, and all true Christians can testify to the fact that Jesus Christ has changed their lives and given them a new nature that desires to serve and glorify God. Sir Wilfred Grenfell (1865–1940), the well-known founder of the Labrador Mission, who was knighted in 1927 for his ministry to the physical and spiritual needs of fishermen, made the following statement on a visit to Harvard University. It is very significant, coming from a trained clinical diagnostician: ‘Just as I have seen the temperature fall and life restored, as some course of medical treatment benefits a dying man, so have I seen the cruel man made kind, and the drunken man made sober, and the impure man made pure, and the feeble man made strong, and the coward made brave.’
But interesting as human testimony may be, what does our Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture as a whole have to say on the subject? The word regeneration denotes a new beginning of life or bringing to birth again. It occurs only twice in Scripture. In Matthew 19:28 (‘in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory’) the Greek word here is used to describe the renewal of the universe or the creation of the ‘new heavens and a new earth’ (2 Peter 3:13; Rev. 21:1). In Titus 3:5, however, the apostle Paul clearly uses the same Greek word to express the beginning of new spiritual life in a Christian quickened by the gift of the Holy Spirit. Thus he writes of God having ‘saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour’. This is the sense of the word that we will be examining in this chapter.
What does the Bible teach about regeneration? The noun ‘regeneration’ means rebirth or second birth. It denotes a supernatural, instantaneous, unconscious, manifest, initial and indispensable change (see below) wrought in the dead soul of a sinner by God the Holy Spirit, in which He implants a new principle of desire, purpose and ability that finds expression in positive responses like repentance and faith to the gospel of Christ, to which previously we were unresponsive.
Regeneration is a change that none of us can do anything to bring about, any more than infants can do anything to bring about their own conception and birth. It cannot be prompted by any human merit or effort, for it is the work of what Augustine called ‘prevenient grace’ (the grace of God that precedes any outgoing of our heart to God). Moreover, because the Holy Spirit resides permanently within us, His renewing work carries on throughout our Christian life, and so Paul can say, ‘Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day’ (2 Cor. 4:16). The Holy Spirit will never allow the life of God He has implanted in a human soul at regeneration to die, but continues to renew and nurture it in a process called sanctification. This definition needs further elaboration.
Regeneration is a supernatural change in human nature
It is solely the gracious work of God’s recreative power. It must not be confused with anything we can do. For example, it is not some sort of change in a person’s thinking produced by Christian instruction. It is quite possible to be reared in a Christian home or even have a degree in theology, and yet not be regenerated. Nor is regeneration to be confused with achieving a state of psychological integration. It is possible to be an integrated personality psychologically, and not be ‘born again’ or ‘born from above’ (John 3:3, 7). Again, regeneration is not to be confused with adopting Christian culture, for there are those who are culturally refined from a Christian point of view who have never experienced a transition from spiritual death to spiritual life. Yet again, regeneration is not to be confused with religious and moral self-reformation. A person can pull their moral socks up, as it were, and appear very religious without being regenerated.
This was really the mistake Nicodemus made when he came to Jesus, saying, ‘Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God’ (John 3:2). Although he was an honest enquirer after the truth, he thought that Jesus was just a teacher and the Christian life simply a matter of following Christ’s teaching. But our Lord, God incarnate, is more than a teacher. He is the Saviour of the world (John 4:42) who is able to change sinful human nature, and so He had to summarily correct this Jewish religious leader and say, ‘You must be born again.’ The adverb in the Greek that Jesus uses in verses 3 and 7 can either mean to be ‘born anew,’ or more likely ‘born from above’. In John 3:31 and chapter 19:11 and 23 it definitely means ‘from above’. It is also the same word used in Matthew 27:51 of the veil in the temple that was ‘torn in two from top to bottom’.
So to be ‘born again’ is to be ‘born from above’. The new birth is not a birth from below (the result of our own effort in reforming ourselves). It is a birth ‘from above’. That is why Jesus in verses 6 and 8 refers to it as being ‘born of the Spirit’. It is the implanting of the life of God in the soul of a sinner. Accordingly, when Nicodemus asked Jesus in verse 4, ‘How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb?’ our Lord made it quite plain that He was not talking about a second physical birth.
There are two kinds of life signified in Scripture by two Greek words, bios and zoe. Bios is the physical or biological life every human being has that is sustained by air, food and water, and eventually ends in death. Zoe, on the other hand, is the spiritual life that is given when we are reborn of the Spirit of God and is eternal (John 3:15, 16, 36). Thus in verse 6 our Lord distinguishes between these two kinds of life by saying, ‘That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the product of physical birth], and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit’ [the product of spiritual birth]. And there is all the difference in the world between these two births. Physical birth is the result of a human act of procreation in which biological life is conceived. Spiritual rebirth or regeneration is a divine work of grace by which the Holy Spirit imparts spiritual life to the dead soul of a sinner and creates a child of God out of a child of the devil (John 1:12–13; 8:44; Eph. 2:2–3).
The very metaphor that Jesus employed in John 3 ought to protect us from the mistake of thinking that regeneration or spiritual rebirth can come about through any intellectual, psychological, religious or moral self-effort. The new birth is not self-improvement of any kind, for who has ever given birth to himself? A baby is born by the will and God-given powers of his parents, not by his own will and power. In just the same way a man is ‘born anew’ by the sovereign will and power of God. The passive voice of the verb ‘born’ also tells us that the new birth is an event in which men and women are wholly inactive.
John 1:12–13 teaches the same truth: ‘But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.’ In John’s gospel regeneration is being ‘born from above,’ or ‘born of the Spirit,’ or ‘born … of God.’ In 2 Corinthians 5:17 regeneration is called ‘a new creation,’ and who can be his own creator? In Ephesians 2:5 Paul says that ‘when we were dead in trespasses [God] made us alive together with Christ’, for only God can make the dead live. All these biblical metaphors affirm that regeneration is the work of God alone, not an act in which human beings cooperate with God.
The Arminians at the Synod of Dort contended that regeneration was a change induced by moral persuasion through the preaching of the gospel. The synod, however, rejected this position as being unscriptural, stating: ‘This is the regeneration, the new creation, the raising from the dead and the making alive so clearly proclaimed in the Scriptures, which God works in us without our help. But this certainly does not happen only by outward teaching, by moral persuasion, or by such a way of working that, after God has done His work, it remains in man’s power whether or not to be reborn or converted [here the word ‘conversion’ is used as a synonym for regeneration]. Rather, it is an entirely supernatural work, one that is at the same time most powerful and most pleasing, a marvellous, hidden, and inexpressible work, which is not lesser than or inferior in power to that of creation or of raising the dead, as Scripture … teaches.’
Regeneration is an instantaneous change in human nature
Conversion, which is the word used to describe what we do when we are regenerated (our repentance of sin and faith in Christ), may be a gradual experience or process, but regeneration is always instantaneous. This is again implied in our Lord’s metaphor of being ‘born from above’ or ‘born of the Spirit’. For although nine months lapse between conception and birth, and although years of development follow birth, birth itself is a dramatic and more or less instantaneous event. This truth is further emphasized by the other two metaphors that are used by the New Testament authors to describe the experience of regeneration; namely, ‘a new creation’ and being ‘raised’ from spiritual death and ‘made alive together with Christ’. For whether we think of life as being created, or as being ‘raised into’, in each case there is a precise and decisive moment when life begins.
The distinction between life and death is an absolute one. We talk in a loose way about being half-alive, but strictly speaking such a condition is impossible. A person is either dead or alive, and that is why the transition from spiritual death to spiritual life must logically be instantaneous. In Ephesians 2:5, the verb translated ‘made us alive’ with Christ is in the aorist tense, signifying immediate action. Though we cannot be sure of the exact moment when regeneration occurs, it must be instantaneous, since there is no such thing as a halfway house between death and life. A sinner does not gradually become a child of God or a Christian. It is an instantaneous spiritual change.
Regeneration is an unconscious change in human nature
It is a secret, hidden work of God the Spirit in the soul of a sinner that is so deeply inward that a person is not conscious of it happening. For this reason some people are tempted to doubt that they have been regenerated, because they have no conscious recollection of it happening. They assume that such a dramatic change should be accompanied by strong subjective feelings. But Scripture nowhere leads us to expect that regeneration in itself will be a conscious experience. On the contrary, once again the terms used to describe regeneration in the Bible confirm that it is a change that takes place below consciousness.
As a parallel, it is safe to say that physical birth is a process of which the baby being born is not conscious at all. It is the parents who are conscious of it, but not the baby. Consciousness of what has happened only comes to the child later. We know that we have been born because of the life we now enjoy, but we do not remember the experience of birth. The same is true of the experience of regeneration. We are not conscious of anything happening when the Holy Spirit implants God’s life in the innermost part of our being and we become partakers of His divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). What we do become conscious of is the outward manifestation of this hidden secret work of God in daily acts of repenting of sin and putting our faith in Christ and His promises (Luke 9:23; 2 Thess. 1:3).
Regeneration is a manifest change in human nature
Just as physical life manifests itself after birth, so spiritual life manifests itself after regeneration. Life by definition cannot remain dormant, and the signs of spiritual rebirth correspond to the signs of physical birth. The first act of a newborn baby is to cry to its mother for succour and help. Likewise, every Christian born from above begins his spiritual life by instinctively crying to God in faith. Without regeneration nobody would truly believe in God in the biblical sense or depend on Him with childlike faith, and so conscious, intentional, active faith in Christ is the direct fruit of regeneration, not its cause.
Secondly, a newborn baby craves milk. Similarly, Peter says to his converts, ‘as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby’ (1 Peter 2:2). Through regeneration we suddenly become aware of a spiritual hunger that we were not conscious of before. We long to read the Bible and hear it taught. The Bible which previously collected dust on a shelf now speaks to us as the voice of God and we begin to feed on ‘living bread’ and drink ‘living water’ (John 6:51; 4:10; 7:37–38). This is a further manifestation of regenerate life.
Thirdly, a baby becomes increasingly attached to its mother, and this is also true of newborn babes in Christ. The Lord Jesus, in whom previously we saw ‘no beauty that we should desire Him’ (Isa. 53:2), now becomes ‘chief among ten thousand’ and ‘altogether lovely’ (Song of Solomon 5:10, 16). Previously we were quite happy without God in our lives, but now we have become ‘alive to God’ (Rom. 6:11; Eph. 2:4–5). We have a new spiritual sensitivity to the presence of Christ and the will of God, to which we were quite insensitive before. Not only that, just as a young child has a desire to follow its mother and do what its mother does, so the newly regenerated Christian is born with a desire to follow Christ and please Him. At one time we were content to live selfishly for ourselves, but not now! Instead ‘we make it our aim … to be well pleasing to Him’ (2 Cor. 5:9). We seek to ‘be imitators of God as dear children’ (Eph. 5:1). Indeed, our sinful will which used to be hostile to God is now surrendered to Him, and we can say with Paul, ‘In my inner being I delight in God’s law’ (Rom. 7:22, NIV).
One more similarity between physical birth and spiritual rebirth is worthy of note: a baby finds rest and peace in the security of its mother’s arms. In the same way, the spiritually reborn Christian enjoys ‘the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding’ because he or she knows that their Father is in total control of their lives and makes ‘all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose’ (Phil. 4:7; Rom. 8:28). Even the regenerate in the Old Testament could say, ‘I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with his mother … O Israel, hope in the LORD from this time forth and forever’ (Ps. 131:2–3). Conversely, ‘The wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. “There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked” ’ (Isa. 57:20–21).
Regeneration is an initial change in human nature
Although regeneration is a miraculous, instantaneous implanting of new spiritual life in the heart of a sinner, it is only the beginning of the Christian life. Just as physical life begins at conception and then gradually develops to full maturity, so spiritual life begins with regeneration and continues through the lifelong process of sanctification in which the whole person (intellectually, emotionally and volitionally) is progressively conformed to the full image of Jesus Christ (which is what is called glorification).
Although regeneration in itself is complete, it is only the first stage of God’s saving work in a person’s soul. It is important to note this, because when the unconverted hear of someone’s conversion they expect them to be perfect. This is wrong! Regeneration is crucial, but it is not complete in itself. Thus the New Testament carefully distinguishes between someone who is merely a ‘babe in Christ’ (1 Cor. 3:1) and ‘those who are of full age’ (Heb. 5:13–14). Both are children of God, but one is infantile while the other is ‘mature’ (Heb. 5:13–14, NIV).
The regenerated person possesses spiritual life (the very life and nature of God), but he or she still has to grow up to adulthood. By daily prayer and Bible reading, by Sunday worship, by regular attendance at the Lord’s Table, and by fellowship with other Christians, the newborn Christian grows to maturity. To understand that regeneration is only the beginning of the Christian life helps us to overcome discouragement when God disciplines us or we become disappointed with the slowness of our spiritual growth. It only takes a moment for us to be regenerated and made alive, but it takes a lifetime for us to be sanctified and made perfect as our ‘Father in heaven is perfect’ (Matt. 5:48).
Regeneration is an indispensable change in human nature
Nicodemus found Christ’s teaching that everyone needs to be ‘born from above’ or ‘born of the Spirit’ in order to see and enter the kingdom of God very difficult to accept. After all, he was a Jew, and all Jews thought that they became members of God’s kingdom by physical birth; that by their very ethnicity they were the chosen people of God. But that was a misconception, and so Jesus informs Nicodemus, ‘Do not marvel that I said to you, “You must be born from above” ’ (v. 7). Its indispensability should not surprise us. And yet as sinners it does, for none of us feels that we are so evil that we need a radical change like a spiritual rebirth or recreation to be saved.
How then did our Lord Jesus enforce this truth? Well, in verse 3 He said to Nicodemus, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.’ That is to say, we are blind to the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God and the necessity for everyone to enter it whatever their ethnicity. Accordingly, the Saviour goes on to say, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, “You must be born from above” ’ (vv. 5–7).
In those three verses our Lord is saying that there are two different kingdoms, in which two different kinds of life are received at two different kinds of birth. The ‘kingdom of this world’ is a material kingdom and its citizens live a life dominated by the ‘flesh’. The ‘kingdom of God’, on the other hand, is a spiritual kingdom, and its citizens live a life dominated by the ‘spirit’. Physical life (the life of the kingdom of this world) is received at physical birth, but spiritual life (which is the life of the kingdom of God) is received at spiritual birth. Just as we cannot enter into the kingdom of this world and enjoy physical life without being born physically, so we cannot enter the kingdom of God and enjoy spiritual life without being born from above spiritually.
The new birth then is indispensable without exception if we want to enter and enjoy the blessings of the kingdom of God. Indeed, Jesus could not have endorsed this truth about regeneration more strongly than by addressing it to Nicodemus, because Nicodemus was a most impressive character, the best that Judaism could produce. To begin with, he was a Jew, a member of God’s chosen people. He was also a Pharisee; he belonged to the strictest religious sect in Judaism. He had been trained in the law of Moses since he was a boy of twelve. He was therefore both punctilious in religious observances and upright in moral character.
Again, he was a rabbi, a doctor of Old Testament law and therefore well versed in Scripture. Yet although Jesus was an object of official suspicion by His contemporaries, Nicodemus was honest enough to accept Him as ‘a teacher come from God’ whose ministry was divinely authenticated by miracles (v. 2). There was no prejudice or hypocrisy on the part of this humble, genuine seeker after the truth. And yet it was to this splendid person, Nicodemus, that Jesus said, ‘You must be born from above.’ There can be no exceptions. Regeneration is not just for down-and-outs. It is for everybody! Religion and morality do not exempt us from the new birth.
One of the cleverest and most dangerous lies the devil ever tells is that if we become a little more religious and respectable, we will pass muster with God. We certainly will not, never in a million years! To start praying and reading the Bible and going to church, important as they are, cannot take the place of the new birth. Fallen human nature does not need a veneer of religiosity, but divine regeneration. Human beings are utterly helpless to bring about a radical and permanent change to their own moral and spiritual condition. So helpless that God says in Jeremiah 13:23, ‘Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.’ When our Lord says, ‘Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit’ (Matt. 7:17), He is asserting that a bad tree will never bear good fruit unless it is first changed into a good tree.
This is the incredible, life-changing miracle that God promised even in the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 30:6 it is described figuratively as a circumcision of the heart (the centre of all human thinking, feeling and doing in OT imagery): ‘The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live’ (NIV). In Jeremiah 31:33 it is described like this: ‘ “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people … for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.’ In Psalm 51:10 David prays, ‘Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me’ (NIV).
In Ezekiel 36:25–28 we have God’s most explicit promise of spiritual recreation: ‘I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them … you shall be My people, and I will be your God.’ These words agree completely with the promises of regeneration in the New Testament of being ‘born of God; born from above; born of water and the Spirit; a new creation in Christ; saved through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit’ (John 1:13; 3:3, 7; 3:5; 2 Cor. 5:17; Titus 3:5).
The metaphors, ‘born of water’ in John 3:5 and ‘the washing of regeneration’ in Titus 3:5 require some interpretation before we can conclude our exposition of this subject. The religious use of water in Old Testament rituals and New Testament baptism clearly symbolized cleansing from the defilement and offensiveness of past sin. But forgiveness is only half of the transaction of salvation, which also requires regeneration as the cure of future sin. The gift of the Holy Spirit at conversion (Acts 2:38) is the ‘washing of regeneration’ that marks the beginning of a clean life (‘born of water’), and the ‘renewing of the Holy Spirit’ ensures its continual renovation in holiness. The only reason why some despise the new birth is because they dislike any thought of a new life.
Professor John Murray sums it up well: ‘This is the purificatory aspect of regeneration. Regeneration must negate the past as well as reconstitute the future. It must cleanse from sin as well as recreate in righteousness … These elements, the purificatory and the renovatory, must not be regarded as separable events. They are simply aspects which are constitutive of this total change by which the called of God are translated from death to life and from the kingdom of Satan into God’s kingdom, a change which provides for all the exigencies of our past condition and the demands of the new life in Christ, a change which removes the contradiction of sin and fits for the fellowship of God’s Son.’
Have you been born from above? The question is not when you were born of the Spirit, but whether you have been born of God. The date is not important, only the fact. Have you any awareness of divine spiritual life through union with Christ by faith? Do you love God and hate sin? Do you have a broken and contrite heart? Is the Bible food for your hungry soul? Do you enjoy talking to God in prayer? Is His will your guide in life and His glory your supreme concern?
These are important questions. If you can answer them in the affirmative, then indeed you have been born of the Spirit. If not, then God’s word says that you must repent of your sins, turning away from what you know is wrong, and put your trust in Christ for forgiveness and spiritual rebirth. This is never easy to do. We are innate lovers of self rather than God and so our pride rebels against humbling ourselves before Him. But it is only when we acknowledge our inability to change our wayward hearts and cast ourselves on the mercy of Jesus Christ to save us, that God will work this miracle of regeneration in the core of our being, without which no one can begin the Christian life.
Brian A. Russell, Saved by Grace from First to Last: An Explanation of the Sovereignty of God and Our Experience of His Saving Grace, ed. M. J. Adams and D. Crisp (London: Grace Publications Trust, 2012), 135–147.
Nope no one was in Christ before faith
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
it is upon faith uniting one with Christ that it may be staterd
Ephesians 2:13–22 (ESV) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
All of TULIP is in scripture, including irresistible Sovereign Grace, Grace Reigns over Death through Jesus Christ Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Election is in Christ, and some of mankind were Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4
If regeneration preceeds belief then you are then in a regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state - however brief or long in time. In other words, you are then a living dead person. That always reminds me of the Night of the Living Dead movies.
Below i have another book. It containes 66 books
Regeneration imparts life.
In scripture, faith always precedes life
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
which requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
You simply ignored this
Nope no one was in Christ before faith
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
it is upon faith uniting one with Christ that it may be staterd
Ephesians 2:13–22 (ESV) — 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You seem to not understand. The Elect are being talked about in Rom 5:6-8 in their unregeneracy, thats also why their election is unconditional, God seen them in their unregeneracy as ungodly sinners as the rest of mankind, but He had a special Love for them that others didn't have.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Why would anyone be called to be a reprobate? That's our default condition from which we need to be saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Wrong, a person can be in a regenerated state [alive Spiritually] yet be in unbelief until God sends them the Gospel to hear and believe. Case in point, Cornelius was spiritually alive but had not yet heard the Gospel until Peter was sent to him. He was regenerated because he had been given a heart to fear God which no man has in unregeneracy.
The Word of Salvation is sent to them that Fear God Acts 13 26
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Read verses Rom 5:1-2 that lays out the context of Rom 5:6-8.
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Faith comes first and only then is our election onto salvation possible.
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Wrong!
God did not create a default sinful ungodly nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. God does not produce by default sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves. Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.
If human nature is ungodly sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?
Newsflash! It's not human nature that sins. People sin
