I'm not ashamed of the gospel

[Damien]

You could fill BOOKS with what I don't understand.

Well we definitely have that in common. Library of books. I have a hard time doing the Hokey Pokey. I forget where my left foot Is supposed to go.
does it go Or does it go out. And that turning yourself about thing that makes me Dizzy

 

[atpollard]

Since this TOPIC is about the Book of Romans and the Book of Romans is Paul talking about BIG QUESTIONS, here is a BIG QUESTION that I can't quite figure out from the Book of Romans ... WHY?

I mean, in Genesis 3:24 [So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.] God had absolutely no trouble at all placing an angel with a friggin flaming sword to make SURE that Adam didn't eat from "the tree of life", so where the heck was that Flaming Sword in Genesis 3:6 [When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.]

If God had sent the angel 18 verses sooner, my youngest brother would not have been murdered and my middle brother would not have placed a gun in his mouth. I would not have learned to survive by stealing and running with a gang and setting enemies on fire and smuggling drugs across state lines. So what in all those WORDS in Paul's letter to the Church in Rome really addresses ... WHY? Not why do BAD things happen, but why did God do NOTHING about it until it was too late?

How is THAT for something I don't understand.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Since this TOPIC is about the Book of Romans and the Book of Romans is Paul talking about BIG QUESTIONS, here is a BIG QUESTION that I can't quite figure out from the Book of Romans ... WHY?

I mean, in Genesis 3:24 [So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.] God had absolutely no trouble at all placing an angel with a friggin flaming sword to make SURE that Adam didn't eat from "the tree of life", so where the heck was that Flaming Sword in Genesis 3:6 [When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.]

If God had sent the angel 18 verses sooner, my youngest brother would not have been murdered and my middle brother would not have placed a gun in his mouth. I would not have learned to survive by stealing and running with a gang and setting enemies on fire and smuggling drugs across state lines. So what in all those WORDS in Paul's letter to the Church in Rome really addresses ... WHY? Not why do BAD things happen, but why did God do NOTHING about it until it was too late?

How is THAT for something I don't understand.

It's clear that God intended the fall to happen. I've explained before my opinion why, so I don't need to repeat myself

 

[brightfame52]

Can the natural man believe the Gospel ? 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now the belief of the Gospel/Truth is also an act of obedience, so we read Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Now ask yourself, can the spiritually dead sinner obey the Gospel a Spiritual message and command ?

No, they which are carnal [governed by the sensual nature] cannot please God nor be subject to God Rom8:7-9

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now the natural man is one without the Spirit of God in them ! Jude 1:19

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. The word sensual is the same greek word for natural in 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[Ahar]

1 Cor 2:14

The point made in this verse is crucial in our understanding of spiritualty, and how to interact with the non-believing world. In short, non-believers cannot be expected to think, or to act, like believers. The problem is not intellectual or moral; reason and evidence point towards God (Psalm 19:1; Romans 1:18–23). The key difference is spiritual: those who are not guided by the Holy Spirit, thanks to faith in Christ, simply lack a godly spiritual perspective.

The only way to be believe the truths of God, including His plan for salvation through faith in Christ, is for God to communicate those truths through His Holy Spirit. Paul's work is to help people who have been given that spiritual ability to believe to understand what it means, but he knows that he cannot make anyone believe it. Intellectual knowledge and human reason cannot produce faith—at best, they can only impart facts (James 2:19).

Now Paul shows the negative. Those without God's Spirit cannot possibly "get it." God's truths must be understood and believed on a spiritual level. Those without God's Spirit don't have that level, Paul insists. Like a radio, television, or microphone tuned to the wrong signal, they are literally incapable of receiving that message.

So the natural person rejects as foolish anything that comes from the Spirit of God. Those who have only their human senses and human reason will never be able to comprehend the spiritual truths of God's revelation about sin, salvation, and Christ to His people. It's unreasonable to expect non-believers to process spiritual issues in the same way as believers. It's impossible to expect them to have the "mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16) when they don't have the Spirit of God.
BibleRef

 

[brightfame52]

@Ahar

The point made in this verse is crucial in our understanding of spiritualty, and how to interact with the non-believing world. In short, non-believers cannot be expected to think, or to act, like believers. The problem is not intellectual or moral; reason and evidence point towards God (Psalm 19:1; Romans 1:18–23). The key difference is spiritual: those who are not guided by the Holy Spirit, thanks to faith in Christ, simply lack a godly spiritual perspective.

You've said some good things friend, for the Gospel as word of Salvation will only be believed by them who already have Faith by regeneration planted in them. Paul stated he wanted to preach the Gospel to them he had already heard of their faith abroad Rom 1:7-8

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Now it was to them specifically he was eager to preach the Gospel to Rom 1:15-17

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The things of the Gospel Paul preached can only be revealed to faith from being regenerated !

 

[civic]

@Ahar



You've said some good things friend, for the Gospel as word of Salvation will only be believed by them who already have Faith by regeneration planted in them. Paul stated he wanted to preach the Gospel to them he had already heard of their faith abroad Rom 1:7-8

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Now it was to them specifically he was eager to preach the Gospel to Rom 1:15-17

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The things of the Gospel Paul preached can only be revealed to faith from being regenerated !

cart before the horse again since we know the new birth comes after one believes the gospel not before.


so we see the new birth is a result of hearing and believing the preaching of the word of God. the gospel message.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 1:21-24
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.



hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

cart before the horse again since we know the new birth comes after one believes the gospel not before.


so we see the new birth is a result of hearing and believing the preaching of the word of God. the gospel message.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 1:21-24
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.



hope this helps !!!

The Gospel as a word of Salvation must be preached to them who already have Faith, which Faith is from regeneration.

 

[Ahar]

@Ahar

You've said some good things friend, for the Gospel as word of Salvation will only be believed by them who already have Faith by regeneration planted in them. Paul stated he wanted to preach the Gospel to them he had already heard of their faith abroad Rom 1:7-8

The things of the Gospel Paul preached can only be revealed to faith from being regenerated !

But what does the Scripture actually say about the logical order of new life and man’s responsibility in attaining it? Which comes first, new life or faith? Let’s observe:

Ezekiel 18:30-32 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…”
2. “…get a new heart and a new spirit.”

Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

1. “Repent and…”
2. “…live!”

Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “Repentance unto…”
2. “…life”

The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17). (Anticipating those who might invoke Act 13:48, please read THIS.)


John 5:40 “yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”


The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “Come to me…” (through faith)
2. “…to have life.”

John 6:53 “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “Unless you eat…drink” (by faith)
2. “…you have not life in you.”

John 6:57 “so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “the one who feeds on me…” (by faith)
2. “…will live”

John 20:31 “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “these are written…” (scriptures)
2. “…that you may believe…”
3. “…by believing you may have life…”

Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.

Acts 15:9 “He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “He purified their hearts…”
2. “…by faith.”

It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.

John 1:12-13 “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…all who did receive him…who believed…”
2. “…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…”

You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility, the work of regeneration is all of God’s doing. It does not come by way of inheritance, marriage, works or striving (Rom. 9:30-32).


Galatians 3:26 “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “You are all sons of God…”
2. “…through faith in Christ…”

Obviously, becoming a son (born of God) is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.


John 12:36 “Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “Believe in the light…”
2. “…so that you may become children…”

Ephesians 1:13 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “when you heard the message of truth…when you believed
2. “you were included in Christ…you were marked in him…”

Galatians 3:2, 5 “I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…received the Spirit…”
2. “…by believing what you heard…”

2 Corinthians 3:14-16 “But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith)
2. “…the veil is taken away.”

1 Timothy 1:16 “But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…those who would believe in him…”
2. “…may receive eternal life.

Colossians 2:12 “…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…baptism, in which you were also raised…”
2. “…through your faith…”

James 1:18 “He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “…give us brith…”
2. “…through the word of truth…”

Soteriology101

 

[civic]

The Gospel as a word of Salvation must be preached to them who already have Faith, which Faith is from regeneration.

nope its preached to unbelievers so they can come to faith and become saved, born again.

 

[brightfame52]

@Ahar

But what does the Scripture actually say about the logical order of new life and man’s responsibility in attaining it? Which comes first, new life or faith? Let’s observe:

Never mind u way off !

 

[brightfame52]

nope its preached to unbelievers so they can come to faith and become saved, born again.

No its preached to believers or them who have Faith from regeneration. Paul writing to believers in Rome Rom 1:8

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Vs 15

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
In fact Paul wanted to be delivered from unbelievers who dont have Faith 2 Thess 3:2
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
Rom 15:31

That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;

 

[Ahar]

@Ahar



Never mind u way off !

Not really, I just don't fall for the false doctrine of Calvinism and their twisting of the gospel.

Romans 10:17 says that faith comes from hearing the Word of God.

CALVINIST TWIST: “That’s right, faith comes from hearing. But (contradictorily), God has to give the elect faith first so that they can understand and respond to the Gospel.”

Calvinists trade in a clear, plain understanding of Scripture for their own twisted, contradictory version. They are upside-down but think they’re right-side up because they’ve been trained to see it that way.

 

[brightfame52]

Not really, I just don't fall for the false doctrine of Calvinism and their twisting of the gospel.

Romans 10:17 says that faith comes from hearing the Word of God.

CALVINIST TWIST: “That’s right, faith comes from hearing. But (contradictorily), God has to give the elect faith first so that they can understand and respond to the Gospel.”

Calvinists trade in a clear, plain understanding of Scripture for their own twisted, contradictory version. They are upside-down but think they’re right-side up because they’ve been trained to see it that way.

Yes really, and Calvinism, Tulip Truths are part of the Gospel,and you scoff it

 

[Ahar]

Yes really, and Calvinism, Tulip Truths are part of the Gospel,and you scoff it

Telling the truth about a false theology in not scoffing. Calvinism denies man’s free will to obey or disobey God, which is the basis of man’s responsibility and accountability, as taught by the Bible: (Gen. 4:6-7; Deut. 11:26-28; 30:11-15, 19; Josh. 24:15; Jer. 38:20; Eze. 18:30; Acts 17:30-31);

 

[brightfame52]

Telling the truth about a false theology in not scoffing. Calvinism denies man’s free will to obey or disobey God, which is the basis of man’s responsibility and accountability, as taught by the Bible: (Gen. 4:6-7; Deut. 11:26-28; 30:11-15, 19; Josh. 24:15; Jer. 38:20; Eze. 18:30; Acts 17:30-31);

So you are ashamed of the Gospel, Calvinism

 

[Ahar]

So you are ashamed of the Gospel, Calvinism

Not even, since I know the truth about Calvinism. Besides Calvinism is not even close to being the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Not even, since I know the truth about Calvinism. Besides Calvinism is not even close to being the gospel.

Yes because Calvinism is the Gospel, specifically the Doctrines of Grace, the Truths they set forth

 

[brightfame52]

The Gospel of Christ will not spiritually profit a person if they dont have Faith from regeneration Heb 42

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Heb 4:2 (KJB)For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Now the writer gives a comparison of the two groups of people who had the Gospel preached to them. The Israelites in the wilderness had the good news preached to them that they were freed from the bondage of slavery and they would be led to the promised land of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This good news did them no good because it fell on spiritually deaf ears. Physical hearing of the word of God does no good if it falls on the ears of the spiritually deaf. (Mat 11:15 KJV) He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 11:15 gives a very common sentence given by the Lord Jesus Christ. Now everyone has ears but what ears is He speaking about? The ears He is speaking about are the ears which have been redeemed. Those who are saved and have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them will be given spiritual ears to hear the Gospel. (1 Cor 2:14 KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. This is why the unsaved man cannot understand the things of God because they require spiritual ears. The Israelites did not have spiritual ears and as a result they interpreted things only according to the flesh. In essence, God was outside their realm of understanding because they were unable to spiritually discern. If one is unsaved, they will not have faith, since faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. (Gal 5:22 KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, https://www.scionofzion.com/hebrews_4_1_5.htm

 

[Ahar]

Yes because Calvinism is the Gospel, specifically the Doctrines of Grace, the Truths they set forth

John Calvin said, “not only was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown, but the ungodly themselves have been created for the specific purpose of perishing.”

So Calvinism is the Gospel that has God creating men, women and children for the express purpose of sending them to hell.

Calvinism is another gospel!

The Bible says, “I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ to another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:6–8).