History 101- Augustines heresy of original sin, original guilt

The Rogue Tomato said:
First you claim to be an expert on Finney but don't know what Finney said, and now this? What books are you reading? Certainly not the Bible.

1 Peter 2:24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
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You don't believe Christ metaphysically was transformed into sin, do you?
 
Rockson said:
Well trust us RT what you say even when you haven't been using it is nothing but gibberish. Might be wise if you don't make it worse. :)
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My post was scripture. I'm not surprised you think it's gibberish.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Near thee.... even in thy mouth.....

"At the tip of your lips....."
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Yes

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

Romans 10:6–8 (ESV) — 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
 
praise_yeshua said:
I told you to quote Finney. Not what others said about Finney. It was a clear statement. Not sure why you're attacking something I didn't say.

I certainly believe the verses you posted above. However, these verses do not establish the necessity for the death of Christ. Christ could have abandoned mankind all together. Christ didn't die for angelic sinners.

Again. You're insisting that Christ die for your sin. You are making Christ the servant of sin. He wasn't. The verses you referenced above are self serving the way you insist upon applying them..

isn't is special that you believe Christ only died for you and those just like you? I mean really is extraordinary isn't it. That God would partake of the same flesh that all of mankind carries and yet He only has to die for you and those just like you.... Right? Be clear. Admit that is what you believe. You insist that Christ only served your sin.
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Calvinists do not believe all scripture

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 4:32 AM April 4, 2024.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
This is another response that's going to require some LSD to grasp what you're saying. And I'm fresh out of LSD, so I just won't respond.
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Why did Christ have to die for you. Show me one verse that insists that Christ MUST die for you. Just one. Jesus dealt with this many times throughout His earthly ministry. For example.

Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jhn 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Your religion requires the death of Christ for you. You disannul Grace and REQUIRE that Christ serve your sin.

Yes. I agree. Calvinism requires LSD to understand. Just say no.

The children of Adam.are innocent until they sin. The parents of humanity teach children to sin and then deny their culpability and responsibility. Sinners serve sin. Christ never served sin.
 
Presby02 said:
Charles Finney was a Calvinist? Quote him
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Finney didn't cease to be a Calvinist because some Calvinists didn't like what he said. That is what all you Calvinists do to one another. You can't get any of them to get along with one another. Even Calvin and Knox great disagreed with one another until they had to work together.

Calvinists loved their slaves...... In fact, many of them argued that they were giving "God" to the heathens. I bet you'd have a slave if abolition hadn't been driven by Finney. The fact that Finney fought for abolition is really the issue that caused strife among many other Calvinists of his time.

Hit a Calvinist in his "pocket"... and you'll find an enemy.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Finney didn't cease to be a Calvinist because some Calvinists didn't like what he said. That is what all you Calvinists do to one another. You can't get any of them to get along with one another. Even Calvin and Knox great disagreed with one another until they had to work together.

Calvinists loved their slaves...... In fact, many of them argued that they were giving "God" to the heathens. I bet you'd have a slave if abolition hadn't been driven by Finney. The fact that Finney fought for abolition is really the issue that caused strife among many other Calvinists of his time.

Hit a Calvinist in his "pocket"... and you'll find an enemy.
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I asked you to quote him claiming to be a Calvinist.
 
Presby02 said:
I asked you to quote him claiming to be a Calvinist.
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You Calvinists are "slippery"...... You claim and deny Calvinism when it "suits you". You live in ambiguity.

Finney didn't have to claim he was a Calvinist to be a Calvinist. Spurgeon claimed he was a Calvinist early in his career and then denied the doctrine as he grew older. It is why Reformed Baptist have fought over him for many many years.

You keep showing how unlearned you are. You're trying to teach when you need to put that bottle back in your mouth.
 
praise_yeshua said:
You Calvinists are "slippery"...... You claim and deny Calvinism when it "suits you". You live in ambiguity.

Finney didn't have to claim he was a Calvinist to be a Calvinist. Spurgeon claimed he was a Calvinist early in his career and then denied the doctrine as he grew older. It is why Reformed Baptist have fought over him for many many years.

You keep showing how unlearned you are. You're trying to teach when you need to put that bottle back in your mouth.
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That's what figured.
 
praise_yeshua said:
You Calvinists are "slippery"...... You claim and deny Calvinism when it "suits you". You live in ambiguity.

Finney didn't have to claim he was a Calvinist to be a Calvinist. Spurgeon claimed he was a Calvinist early in his career and then denied the doctrine as he grew older. It is why Reformed Baptist have fought over him for many many years.

You keep showing how unlearned you are. You're trying to teach when you need to put that bottle back in your mouth.
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Fence walking having their cake and eating it too. That’s what happens in a theological system filled with contradictions.
 

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