Diserner
Well-known member
Easy way to try to dismiss what the Scripture actually says.
Infant Reprobation and Damnation
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Easy way to try to dismiss what the Scripture actually says.
Diserner
Well-known member
"No one is good but God."
But the CONTEXT, look at the CONTEXT:
"What shall I DO to inherit eternal life?"
Oh, the context is SALVATION, and the STATE OF MANKIND, and the universal requirements to enter heaven.
"No one is good but God."
Proof texting!
"No one is good but God."
Pitting scripture vs. scripture!
"No one is good but God."
I DON'T LIKE IT FOR MY THEOLOGY.
"No one is good but God."
OUT OF CONTEXT, TONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOOD!
"No one is good but God."
So Jesus REALLY means:
"LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE GOOD."
Ta-da!
WE JUST MADE JESUS SAY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE SAYS IN THE NAME OF "CORRECT" INTERPRETATION!
But the CONTEXT, look at the CONTEXT:
"What shall I DO to inherit eternal life?"
Oh, the context is SALVATION, and the STATE OF MANKIND, and the universal requirements to enter heaven.
"No one is good but God."
Proof texting!
"No one is good but God."
Pitting scripture vs. scripture!
"No one is good but God."
I DON'T LIKE IT FOR MY THEOLOGY.
"No one is good but God."
OUT OF CONTEXT, TONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOOD!
"No one is good but God."
So Jesus REALLY means:
"LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE GOOD."
Ta-da!
WE JUST MADE JESUS SAY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE SAYS IN THE NAME OF "CORRECT" INTERPRETATION!
civic
Well-known member
I refuted your Solitary verse ripped out from Roman’s 3
Hosanna
Well-known member
According to Genesis 1:31, God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. This includes man, who is the master-piece of God’s works and His visible image and deputy here on earth. The word “good” to me means in harmony with God. That Harmony was thrown off key by the fall. Our salvation through Jesus restores that love song.
Now in this case we have Jesus answering a question from a religious leader.
Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: "Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God is truly good."— Luke 18:18-19
Jesus was challenging the religious leader to wake up and understand the truth that stood right in front of him. If he was calling Jesus "good," then he must come to understand that Jesus is God and not play religious games but truly come to believe.
Now in this case we have Jesus answering a question from a religious leader.
Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: "Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God is truly good."— Luke 18:18-19
Jesus was challenging the religious leader to wake up and understand the truth that stood right in front of him. If he was calling Jesus "good," then he must come to understand that Jesus is God and not play religious games but truly come to believe.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
Since God is not a liar, contradictions mean you're wrong, not God.
Diserner
Well-known member
Since JESUS is NOT a liar.
And he said NO ONE IS GOOD.
That means YOU are wrong.
And nothing in the Word is "pitted" against Jesus statement, but completely agrees.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
Jesus also said of children that when angels look at them, they're just like looking at the Father in Heaven. I guess you're saying God doesn't look all that good. . .
The bible says many things, but if what you think it says contradicts other passages, you're just wrong.
That's all.
civic
Well-known member
And we must remember the context of the passage where Jesus said no one is good.
Then there is Jesus teaching on the Good Samaritan
Diserner
Well-known member
And we must remember the context of the passage where Jesus said no one is good.
Then there is Jesus teaching on the Good Samaritan
Self-righteous Double Pounder Cheeseburger with Pride Fries on the side~~~!
I'm Lovin' It!
Frank Russell
Well-known member
As it is written, one who respects God will avoid all extremes.And we must remember the context of the passage where Jesus said no one is good.
Then there is Jesus teaching on the Good Samaritan
Diserner
Well-known member
Frank Russell
Well-known member
It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes. Wisdom makes one wise person more powerful than ten rulers in a city. (Ecclesiastes 7:18-19)
Give up if you like, but it still is written.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
In the end, some people just want to worship a god who hates everyone and everything. That's all there is to it.
But that's not the Father in Heaven that Jesus spoke about in the gospels.
But that's not the Father in Heaven that Jesus spoke about in the gospels.
Rockson
Well-known member
Correction. As long as he loves THEM they're fine with him not loving anybody else.
Hosanna
Well-known member
There are many people that have a hard time dealing with love. God loves us and he wants us to love him and to love each other. It's such an important topic that the Bible has one whole chapter on just this one topic.
IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God’s love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God’s love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).
3 Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or in order that I may glory, but have not love (God’s love in me), I gain nothing.
4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].
6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.
7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].
9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).
10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.
12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].
13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faith—conviction and belief respecting man’s relation to God and divine things; hope—joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love—true affection for God and man, growing out of God’s love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 Co 13:1–13.
civic
Well-known member
From the Calvinist/Reformed Belgic Confession
Infants are abominable. Yikes
Article 15: Of Original Sin.
We believe that, through the disobedience of Adam, original sin is extended to all mankind; which is a corruption of the whole nature, and an hereditary disease, wherewith infants themselves are infected even in their mother's womb, and which produceth in man all sorts of sin, being in him as a root thereof; and therefore is so vile and abominable in the sight of God, that it is sufficient to condemn all mankind. Nor is it by any means abolished or done away by baptism; since sin always issues forth from this woeful source, as water from a fountain; notwithstanding it is not imputed to the children of God unto condemnation, but by his grace and mercy is forgiven them.Infants are abominable. Yikes
Frank Russell
Well-known member
I recall having thoughts where you compare what Jesus said to do so you could be like the Father, and Calvinist teaching does the opposite .. it seems many humans are more righteous than the calvinist god.
civic
Well-known member
Matthew 18:2-5
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven
Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
Matthew 19:13-14
Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.
Mark 9:36-37
Taking a child, He set him before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”
Mark 10:13-16
And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.
Luke 9:47-48
But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”
Luke 18:15-17
And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
hope this helps !!!
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven
Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
Matthew 19:13-14
Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.
Mark 9:36-37
Taking a child, He set him before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”
Mark 10:13-16
And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.
Luke 9:47-48
But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”
Luke 18:15-17
And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
How refreshing then was the Biblical, Hebrew culture where all children were considered to be gifts from the Lord. Rachel spoke as the mother of her people when she cried, "Give me children, or I shall die!" (Genesis 30:1). Hannah prayed in the temple for a child. When God answered, she named him Samuel ("God has heard"). She later gave Samuel to the Lord's service (1 Samuel 1:20, 28). Hebrew culture elevated the family and children!
We can surmise that quite a number of cheerful families stood in line chatting, with babes in arms and children scurrying around. Then it stopped. Outside the house the disciples were sending them away with a rebuke!
Why were they doing this? They were protecting Jesus. They knew Jesus was under pressure. Wherever he went, he found conflict–one time with demons, another time the religious establishment, etc. And if that was not enough, there were the crashing crowds. This matter of blessing children was simply one more drain. Besides, these were just children. They were of little importance. They could not enter debate or contribute to the cause, even if they did understand about Jesus. So the disciples stopped the flow.
Verse 14 indicates that Jesus saw what was happening, and "he was indignant." The Greek word translated "indignant" occurs only here in the New Testament and is a combination of two words: "much" and "to grieve." He was much grieved!
First, Jesus loves children. Jesus, after all, had been a child himself. He was a real baby, child, teenager, and man. We see Christ's love for children as he celebrates the delight of a mother on giving birth (John 16:21), the gentle love of a father who cuddles his children (Luke 11:7), and parental love that listens to a child's every request (Matthew 7:9; Luke 11:11).
Many of his miracles involved children: the nobleman's little son (John 4:46-54), the demonized son of the man at the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:14-29), Jairus' daughter to whom Christ tenderly said, "Talitha cumi," which means, "Little girl, I say to you, rise" (Mark 5:41). Jesus truly, as man and God, love children!
So we learn from Jesus' indignation, first, that Jesus loves children, and, secondly, that Jesus affirms and respects the personhood and spirituality of children. In saying, "for to such belongs the kingdom of God," he affirms their full spirituality. They are the hearts he takes to himself! Christ affirms and proclaims the spiritual capacity of children.
How sobering, then, are Jesus' words, "do not hinder them." The Talmud says, "A child tells in the street what its father and mother say at home." What are children learning in our homes and in our churches?
For starters, coming as a "child" does not infer innocence. Any two-year-old dispels such a notion! Neither does "like a child" suggest the wondrous subjective states we often find in children such as trustfulness, receptivity, simplicity, or wonder, beautiful as these are.
What Jesus has in mind here is an objective state that every child who has ever lived, regardless of race, culture, or background, has experienced—helpless dependence.
Every single child in the world is absolutely, completely, totally, objectively, subjectively, existentially helpless! And so it is with every child who is born into the kingdom of God. Children of the kingdom enter it helpless, ones for whom everything must be done.
The realization that one is as helpless as a child naturally fosters humility. Jesus gave reference to this connection when, in a similar but separate statement, he said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3-4).
Do you desire to be held in Christ's arms, to hear him pronounce blessings over you? Eternity will reveal that is all we ever wanted, and our Spirit-given response is, "Dearest Father"–"Abba! Father!" (cf. Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6). Kent Hughes
Conclusion: Children are blessings not dirty rotten little sinful babies. Why didn't Jesus say children were sinners but instead insisted adults become like children ?
hope this helps !!!
Mark 10 shows a further elevation of children by our Lord. The account opens in verse 13 with Mark telling us that "they were bringing children to [Jesus] that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them." As best we can gather, fathers, mothers, and perhaps older children, were bringing young children, many of whom were babies (for that is how Luke describes them in his parallel account, 18:15), to Jesus for his blessing. This was in keeping with a classic Jewish custom that dated all the way back to the time when the patriarch Israel laid his hands upon the heads of Ephraim and Manasseh and blessed them (Genesis 48:14). It was all very proper, traditional, and wonderful. Proud parents held out their precious children to Jesus, who took them in his arms where they snuggled close. He placed his hand on their warm little heads, and lifting his eyes to Heaven, pronounced a blessing.
We can surmise that quite a number of cheerful families stood in line chatting, with babes in arms and children scurrying around. Then it stopped. Outside the house the disciples were sending them away with a rebuke!
Why were they doing this? They were protecting Jesus. They knew Jesus was under pressure. Wherever he went, he found conflict–one time with demons, another time the religious establishment, etc. And if that was not enough, there were the crashing crowds. This matter of blessing children was simply one more drain. Besides, these were just children. They were of little importance. They could not enter debate or contribute to the cause, even if they did understand about Jesus. So the disciples stopped the flow.
Verse 14 indicates that Jesus saw what was happening, and "he was indignant." The Greek word translated "indignant" occurs only here in the New Testament and is a combination of two words: "much" and "to grieve." He was much grieved!
Our Lord's Elevation of Children
Jesus was angry, and his words have a clipped, staccato ring to them: "[He] said to them, 'Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God'" (v. 14). What should we draw from these passionate words?First, Jesus loves children. Jesus, after all, had been a child himself. He was a real baby, child, teenager, and man. We see Christ's love for children as he celebrates the delight of a mother on giving birth (John 16:21), the gentle love of a father who cuddles his children (Luke 11:7), and parental love that listens to a child's every request (Matthew 7:9; Luke 11:11).
Many of his miracles involved children: the nobleman's little son (John 4:46-54), the demonized son of the man at the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:14-29), Jairus' daughter to whom Christ tenderly said, "Talitha cumi," which means, "Little girl, I say to you, rise" (Mark 5:41). Jesus truly, as man and God, love children!
So we learn from Jesus' indignation, first, that Jesus loves children, and, secondly, that Jesus affirms and respects the personhood and spirituality of children. In saying, "for to such belongs the kingdom of God," he affirms their full spirituality. They are the hearts he takes to himself! Christ affirms and proclaims the spiritual capacity of children.
How sobering, then, are Jesus' words, "do not hinder them." The Talmud says, "A child tells in the street what its father and mother say at home." What are children learning in our homes and in our churches?
Our Lord's Elevation of Children's Faith
Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." The word translated "not" is very strong. New Testament scholar William Lane comments: "The solemn pronouncement is directed at the disciples, but has pertinence for all men confronted by the gospel because it speaks of the condition for entrance into the Kingdom of God." No one will get into the Kingdom of God unless he or she receives God's salvation like a child—no one! How are we to understand and apply this?For starters, coming as a "child" does not infer innocence. Any two-year-old dispels such a notion! Neither does "like a child" suggest the wondrous subjective states we often find in children such as trustfulness, receptivity, simplicity, or wonder, beautiful as these are.
What Jesus has in mind here is an objective state that every child who has ever lived, regardless of race, culture, or background, has experienced—helpless dependence.
Every single child in the world is absolutely, completely, totally, objectively, subjectively, existentially helpless! And so it is with every child who is born into the kingdom of God. Children of the kingdom enter it helpless, ones for whom everything must be done.
The realization that one is as helpless as a child naturally fosters humility. Jesus gave reference to this connection when, in a similar but separate statement, he said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3-4).
Do you desire to be held in Christ's arms, to hear him pronounce blessings over you? Eternity will reveal that is all we ever wanted, and our Spirit-given response is, "Dearest Father"–"Abba! Father!" (cf. Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6). Kent Hughes
Conclusion: Children are blessings not dirty rotten little sinful babies. Why didn't Jesus say children were sinners but instead insisted adults become like children ?
hope this helps !!!
