History 101- Augustines heresy of original sin, original guilt
- Thread starter civic
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He is alive and a contemporary. LOL
yes and could be considered a peer. A peer does not have to be dead or a non contemporary
I disagree. George Washington is not my peer
civic
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Red herrings a whole school of them
The Rogue Tomato
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So, if everyone is born without a sin nature, then surely someone should have made it through their entire life without sinning. It would be statistically impossible to think otherwise. What need would he/she have of Christ?
civic
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praise_yeshua
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Charles Finney..... He was a Calvinist who actually had a heart....
You might like him if you really knew what he believed.
The Rogue Tomato
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That has nothing to do with what I asked. Forget Adam. If everyone since Adam is born without a sin nature, then surely someone should have made it through their entire life without sinning. It would be statistically impossible to think otherwise. What need would he/she have of Christ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you really want to discuss this? You're at a point where we can have a meaningful conversation with this questions you're asking.
Adam was not born with a sin nature. However, Adam clearly sinned.
Why don't you start with that fact and then worry about the descendents of Adam.
The Rogue Tomato
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Wrong. "Finney departed strongly from traditional Calvinist theology. In the field of soteriology, he denied the doctrine of total depravity, implying humans can please God without the intervention of his grace."Charles Finney..... He was a Calvinist who actually had a heart....
You might like him if you really knew what he believed.
praise_yeshua
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Squirrel....Red herrings a whole school of them
The Rogue Tomato
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You're deflecting. Just answer the question.
praise_yeshua
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Congrats. You know how to copy wikipedia or someone's website. I've argued Finney for years. I once tormented Calvinists concerning him. What I said I said from experience.
Quote Finney. Go for it.
civic
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time praise_yeshua
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No I'm not. Adam sinned without having sinful nature. That is important. He that knew no sin..... sinned. It is the doctrine of Impeccability and its contrast (peccability). It deals with capabilities and character.
To answer your question. The descendents of Adam was born without any knowledge. Just like your children were. They didn't know anything but what you taught them.
Think for a minute and consider your own impact on your children. The same as anyone else. A man and women that sinned teaching others to sin.
civic
Well-known member
It’s obvious who’s deflecting and protecting. The fact is Adam is a stumbling block in their theology
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
On Total Depravity
1st. It does not consist in any want of faculties to obey God. We have all the powers of moral agency, that are needed to render perfect obedience to God. If there were any want of faculties, in our nature, our responsibility would cease; and we could not be justly blamed, for not doing that, for the performance of which, we do not possess the appropriate moral powers.
2dly. Total depravity does not consist, in a mutilated state of our moral powers. Neither our powers of body, or mind, are in a maimed, or mutilated state. If they were so, our obligation to obedience, would be diminished, precisely in proportion to the imperfection of the faculties of moral agency, which we possess.
So, if you believe Finney, that leads to my question. If everyone since Adam is born without a sin nature, and We have all the powers of moral agency, that are needed to render perfect obedience to God, then surely someone should have made it through their entire life without sinning. It would be statistically impossible to think otherwise. What need would he/she have of Christ?
