He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[brightfame52]

Again Christ died for all

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (UASV) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died; 15 and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Thats the chosen, and the all that He died for shall as a result shall no longer live unto themselves but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf, they will come to faith in Christ

 

[TomL]

Thats the chosen, and the all that He died for shall as a result shall no longer live unto themselves but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf, they will come to faith in Christ

Sorry all are not the chosen

 

[Biblelesson]

Sorry all are not the chosen

I know what you're saying but even if you're not into Calvinism The bible still says this.

1 Peter 2:9, “You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

I'm sure after your years of Politely debating Calvinist over at the other place you have a good response to this one.

 

[TomL]

I know what you're saying but even if you're not into Calvinism The bible still says this.

1 Peter 2:9, “You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

I'm sure after your years of Politely debating Calvinist over at the other place you have a good response to this one.

Yes different context

Previous discussion

Again Christ died for all

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (UASV) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died; 15 and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died and rose again on their behalf.

to which Brightfame 52 stated the all here are the chosen (paraphrase)

to which I noted the all here are not (just) the chosen

those who live appear to be a subset of the all who Christ died for

 

[Biblelesson]

Yes different context

Previous discussion

Again Christ died for all

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (UASV) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died; 15 and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died and rose again on their behalf.

to which Brightfame 52 stated the all here are the chosen (paraphrase)

to which I noted the all here are not (just) the chosen

those who live appear to be a subset of the all who Christ died for

1 Peter 2:9 is a little deeper than that.

In contrast with those who reject Christ and are predestined to "stumble," Peter now describes the chosen people of God. You know the ones, The Elect.

Peter uses language that had been used to describe God's special relationship with Israel. As Israel was, we—Calvinists—are also a chosen race.

We are a spiritual race, in the sense that, in Christ, we share a single spiritual Father. In that same meaning, we are a "holy nation," a specific group of people called out and set apart from all others.

 

[dwight92070]

1 Peter 2:9 is a little deeper than that.

In contrast with those who reject Christ and are predestined to "stumble," Peter now describes the chosen people of God. You know the ones, The Elect.

Peter uses language that had been used to describe God's special relationship with Israel. As Israel was, we—Calvinists—are also a chosen race.

We are a spiritual race, in the sense that, in Christ, we share a single spiritual Father. In that same meaning, we are a "holy nation," a specific group of people called out and set apart from all others.

It's a shame that you, as a Calvinist, would separate yourself and all Calvinists, from the rest of the body of Christ who are not Calvinists. That is very cult-like. There should be one body of Christ, not two divisions, Calvinists and nonCalvinists.
But, I didn't think this was the topic here.

 

[360watt]

Another part of this . . Is what people mean by Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.

1 Co 12:13, by context is about the local body at Corinth, rather than the entity of all redeemed.

The church AT Corinth is called 'the body of Christ' ..which does not include all redeemed.

So I believe 1 co 12:13 is water baptism as a pre requisite to join a NT local church.

 

[TomL]

1 Peter 2:9 is a little deeper than that.

Once again that is not the context of the discussion

Yes different context

Previous discussion

Again Christ died for all

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (UASV) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died; 15 and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died and rose again on their behalf.

to which Brightfame 52 stated the all here are the chosen (paraphrase)

to which I noted the all here are not (just) the chosen

those who live appear to be a subset of the all who Christ died for

and 1Pe 2:9 has nothing to do with it

In contrast with those who reject Christ and are predestined to "stumble," Peter now describes the chosen people of God. You know the ones, The Elect.

As a result of disobedience v8

Still has nothing to do with the interpretation of

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (UASV) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died; 15 and he died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Christ died for all that those who live (a subset of those Christ died for) should live for Christ

Peter uses language that had been used to describe God's special relationship with Israel. As Israel was, we—Calvinists—are also a chosen race.

We are a spiritual race, in the sense that, in Christ, we share a single spiritual Father. In that same meaning, we are a "holy nation," a specific group of people called out and set apart from all others.

 

[Truther]

And you are a denier of scripture

Deniers of scripture will not be allowed to escape from the scriptures they deny

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts: And let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; And to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

all who repent receive remission of sin

PS the Acts 10 ending does not help you

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

as they had remission of sin salvation and the indwelling Spirit before water baptism

I see what you are saying. You are saying that the Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, but Peter told the gentiles that they need not be baptized in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. Man, you are really a humdinger today, Tom.

 

[Truther]

For remission of sins is better understood because of remission of sins. Jesus blood gives forgiveness of sins Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Christ death took away or purged away the sins of them He died for and then sat down at the right hand of God having finished that work Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

I see what you are saying. The 3000 said men and brother and what shall we do,? And Peter told them repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus because you’ve already received the remission of sins… Lol.

They unknowingly received remission of sins… Lol

I bet you think they unknowingly received the Holy Ghost also… Lol

 

[TomL]

I see what you are saying. You are saying that the Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, but Peter told the gentiles that they need not be baptized in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. Man, you are really a humdinger today, Tom.

There are facts you need to deal with

Even Old testament Jews held remission pardon of sin was available on repentance

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts: And let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; And to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

all who repent receive remission of sin

and the gentiles had forgiveness of sin before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

as they had remission of sin salvation and the indwelling Spirit before water baptism

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry all are not the chosen

Yes it is, Paul told them that in his first epistle, they were chosen and called 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1 Cor 1 24,26

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

@Truther

I see what you are saying. The 3000 said men and brother and what shall we do,? And Peter told them repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus because you’ve already received the remission of sins… Lol.

Yes and No, they were already forgiven through the blood of Christ, now they were going to receive it in the knowledge of it. Those who are forgiven, God wiill send that message to them so they can receive it in their minds Acts 13 38

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Also they were already regenerated by the Spirit as well

 

[TomL]

Yes it is, Paul told them that in his first epistle, they were chosen and called 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1 Cor 1 24,26

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

wrong party

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

all died but not all lived

 

[brightfame52]

wrong party

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

all died but not all lived

The all are the called, chosen, and they are made to live

 

[Truther]

There are facts you need to deal with

Even Old testament Jews held remission pardon of sin was available on repentance

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts: And let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; And to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

all who repent receive remission of sin

and the gentiles had forgiveness of sin before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

as they had remission of sin salvation and the indwelling Spirit before water baptism

So Peter commanded the gentiles to be baptized in the name of the Lord, even though it was irrelevant?
Do you baptize in the name of the Lord even though it is irrelevant to you?
I bet you don’t do it at all?

 

[Truther]

@Truther



Yes and No, they were already forgiven through the blood of Christ, now they were going to receive it in the knowledge of it. Those who are forgiven, God wiill send that message to them so they can receive it in their minds Acts 13 38

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Also they were already regenerated by the Spirit as well

So all we have to do is preach and remission of sins magically leaves our mouth? Or our preaching magically remit sins in the ears of the hearers? Is that where you guys are going these days?

Or do you really have to think hard when you hear the preaching to get your sins remitted? I mean really hard?

 

[TomL]

So Peter commanded the gentiles to be baptized in the name of the Lord, even though it was irrelevant?
Do you baptize in the name of the Lord even though it is irrelevant to you?
I bet you don’t do it at all?

You are somewhat confused I did not say it was irrelevant I did note repentance brings remission of sin

There are facts you need to deal with

Even Old testament Jews held remission pardon of sin was available on repentance

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts: And let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; And to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

all who repent receive remission of sin

and the gentiles had forgiveness of sin before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

as they had remission of sin salvation and the indwelling Spirit before water baptism

but you will not deal with the evidence

 

[TomL]

The all are the called, chosen, and they are made to live

Sorry if all were chosen all would have lived, but the text does not say that

 

[brightfame52]

So all we have to do is preach and remission of sins magically leaves our mouth? Or our preaching magically remit sins in the ears of the hearers? Is that where you guys are going these days?

Or do you really have to think hard when you hear the preaching to get your sins remitted? I mean really hard?

Paul was led by the Spirit where to preach. Doesnt God do the sending according to Rom 10 15


And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!