I'd be better convinced by your presenting arguments rather than merely stating your position.
You have proven otherwise just in this thread.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Physician, heal thyself.
PROVE IT! That's what we're all here for, isn't it?
I have.
I didn't say that I came to him ONLY because I don't want to go to Hell. That's certainly one good reason but it by no means the only reason nor is it even the most important reason. Do you think that not going to Hell is the only benefit that you derive from having a relationship with God?
It is the only appeal you've made. I can only go by what you felt important to mention. I certainly didn't want to be judged... However,
While you're searching the Scriptures. Find one verse (more than syllables) that says that faith is about requiring belief in hell? Not that I don't believe in hell. I do. Faith is much more than believing in damnation. Faith believes in who God is even when you don't know who God is.
This was frankly a stupid thing to say. Not only does it have exactly nothing to do with what I said but you couldn't establish that this fabrication of yours is the way Satan thinks if your life depended on it.
Satan loves those who comply with him.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Contradict yourself much?
Nope. Justice doesn't have forbearance. Justice isn't about patience. You want sinners/evil men killed right now. That is what you expect. You don't realize just how sinful you really are. So go ahead and tell me again how you're forgiven.
Forgiveness requires acknowledgement of your own person sin.
You aren't talking about anything I've said. The only work that has anything to do with my salvation is the work that was finished by Christ at Calvary.
Contradict yourself much? You said that Christ had to die for you. That "backdoors" meriting the Grace of God for yourself. God didn't have to do anything for you. You keep contradicting yourself.
Of course I do!
Who are you even talking too?
Nor have I suggested otherwise.
You just did. You just said that Christ had to die for you. That puts the onus of the requirements of the Atonement upon YOU. You don't have to listen me..... get it? You don't have to listen to me......
You don't have to listen to me isn't the same as saying you have to listen to me...... Do you get it. You keep saying that Christ had to die for you. That is not true. He didn't have to die for anyone. It was not justice that YOU insert in the Atonement that establishes God demands. It was the benevolence of His Grace
I realize this is new to you. You should spend some time dealing with the complexity of the Atonement before you keep contradicting yourself.
Justice is not what I need. It is Grace and mercy. There is even mercy to be found within the law. Those laws are often ignored.
What mercy is there to be found in requiring the death of children that curse their father or mother? Haven't you cursed God yourself?
Everyone seeks justice for others but not for themselves.
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too! God is either just or He isn't. The wages (i.e. the consequence / punishment / whatever term you want to use that means the same thing) of sin is death. God died for you so that you don't have to suffer the consequence of your sin, at least not after this mortal life is over anyway. If you believe that's true and you believe that He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. If not, you get to pay your own sin debt.
Nope. That is not how it works. The debt of sin is gone. Christ owns that debt whether it is recognized or not. What a person does according to faith is what settles a individuals eternity.
How much MORE punishment is due those who have trodden under foot the Lord Jesus Christ.... Here. Read it for yourself.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Do you see "justice" at the end of that verse? What word is there?
It is Grace. You can claim it for yourself if you like while denying it to others... but that is a mistake. Keep making the Atonement all about Justice. We'll see where that gets you.
It is in your own self-interest to pick wisely! God wants (i.e. He considers it to be in His best interests too) for you to choose life, for He is Life but He cannot simply pretend like sin hasn't happened and remain just and He is unwilling to become unjust for your sake. Therefore, He became a man and died to voluntarily pay the penalty that Justice (capital J) demands for sin so that you can be spared the fate of death.
Now, that's the gospel!
Believe in a god who arbitrarily deals with sin in opposition to justice if you want. It's a dangerous path!
Yeah. God loves self interest. He just loves self interest. I mean it is the "cornerstone" of the gospel..... right?
All men seek their own. Not the things that be of Christ. I wonder why Paul said that.....
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
There is a reason that Paul said that he could wish himself accursed from Christ for his brethren......
He saw himself in them. Empathy.
..... to comments above. Who knows what affects the "vibration" of caesium atoms. I don't. I don't think anyone fully knows.
