Gods Innate Attributes

[praise_yeshua]

A feeling of deep affection.

Love is a feeling but that is only part of love. Love is always relative to the overall Character of God. As such. It is extraordinarily vast and requires intriguite reflection. Paul called God's love as the "bond of perfection".

The overall arching "bond" relative to the Character of God is "boundless love".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yeah, like I said, you'd not present a single syllable of any verse that says that God created love.

Is Love perfect? Is love a "gift"?

The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts via what? The Holy Spirit?

Why do you resist the obvious? God loves. However, God is reflected in what He creates. God brings love to His creation.... humanity. Our love is imperfect.

The two are not mutually exclusive!

It was greatly to our benefit for Jesus to die for our sins and to be raised from the dead for our salvation. It was also greatly to God's benefit as well. It was a price God considered well worth paying.

I'd like to see one single verse that says such a thing as this? Just one.

The word Scriptures use is "behoved" in English. Or considered it "necessary". However there is never a demand of God to do anything. You're turning Grace into lasciviousness. You've fashioned the Grace of God after your own lusts.

That isn't true at all! On the contrary, people act as their own destroyers more often than not. .

A house divided cannot stand. Even Satan knows he needs cooperation. Yes, relative to God, they are self destructive but necessary for the self serving.

Every government welfare check is an exercise in self-destruction both for the society that produced the check and for him who cashed it.

My wife works at a couple of different day care centers and she comes home all the time with stories about how parents are actively destroying their kid's lives and making their own lives miserable in the process.

Proverbs 11:19 As righteousness leads to life, So he who pursues evil pursues it to his own death.​

Yes. Self serving but it works for a time. You're no different. None of us are. You're being self serving in your theology. Demanding Justice when you have nothing but Grace is self serving nonsense.

 

[Logikos]

A feeling of deep affection.

That's it? You think love is merely an emotion?

 

[Aeliana]

Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing

 

[Logikos]

God committed his love toward us in that we yet sinners, Christ died for man. Did you forget those words? What about the fact that God purposed Christ before man was ever formed.

This doesn't seem to connect to anything I've said.

Let me tell you something about actually loving someone. Especially someone that is made in your own likeness. I loved my children before they were ever born.

What is it that you think you're telling me that I don't already understand? What have I said that even sounds like it would contradict such a sentiment, much less engender this hostile attitude?

Sure they are. You can't hate your brother and love God. We know this because the Scriptures declare so.

Hate your brother without cause.

Besides, I quoted the bible. You want to address that or does that not matter to you at all?

Hating sin is different than loving your own. I love my children regardless of how they sin. God does too. It is referenced in the Scriptures as "natural affection".

Does you God love Satan too? How about murders, pedophiles and rapists?

If so, I want nothing to do with him.

There is no law that always for another person to take your place and serve your sentence of death.

Then God is unjust.

If there were such "justice", then many criminals with be free right now. Prove it.

Your premise would mean that God is unjust.
God is not unjust.
Therefore, your premise is false.
QED

What you don't understand about love is it must first be pure.

Tell me what that means. You can't even tell me what it means to love in the first place, never mind what it means for love to be pure. You seem to be just spitting out as many cliches as you can think of, whether they pertain to anything I've said or not.

Then love does not seek "its" own. The way you love is to "seek your own". All humans do. You do. I do. God doesn't.

I've demonstrated otherwise with something more than merely having shown up to declare it so.

You need to study more.

Says the man who believe that God is unjust.

The Atonement required the death of God to satisfy the demands of pure and complete love. Not justice. Love.

Foolishness. God cannot love you by being unrighteous!

I'm not you. God loves. Justice demands death. In fact, justice demands your IMMEDIATE DEATH.

Why are you not dead?

Because God loved me and gave Himself for me. He died that I might live. See how that works?

If God is allowed to be unjust, then there was no need for Christ to die at all. He could have just "loved" us into heaven.

 

[Rockson]

Time dilation. We know black holes are black holes. Not much else is known of them. There are claims without evidence because it is nearly impossible to study them. I think... "we see through a dark glass".

One of man's many problems is turning speculation into fact.

Sure they do this with a great many things. I believe though time dilation is demonstrable and has been proven such. Atomic clocks do run at different speeds depending on the vantage point of the observer.

If you travel to the moon. The time at the moon is the same as it is on the earth.

If the moon was near a black hole and you were on a ship being there your atomic clocks would run slower. Of course this could only be accepted if one goes with gravitational forces effects space time. My point about the other poster is I think TIME can be called a thing, plus my interest in this would be how these principles would connect to another thing in physics which would

demonstrate how God can observe something and not to have and need it be said he ordained anything of choices people make. I don't believe he does. Let me just say I don't believe Time dilation and more that could be said about it really isn't an insignificant thing. There is a reason and a purpose the physical universe was created and structured this way and I have a concept picture in my mind about it. Bottom line is everything is not ordained but it's probably best just to use the scripture to demonstrate this.

. I do not believe in the "Big Bang" theory

I see no need to accept that either. I hear ones counter that though with even if there was one who pulled the trigger?

 

[Logikos]

Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing

You two are impossible to have a rational discussion with.

IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS THREAD!!!!

Love is ACTING in another's best interest!

There, you see how easy that was?! Twelve whole syllables! Your emotional state of mind may or may not be involved at all. You might have a great deal of affection for the person or you may hate their guts, but if you act, whether in thought, word or deed, in a manner that is in that person's best interest then your act is an act of love - by definition.

What is the most loving thing a governing official can do to a murderer?
Publicly execute him upon his conviction.

What is the most loving thing you can do for a lazy person?
Allow his hunger pains to motivate him get off his butt and work.

What is the most loving thing you can do to members of your church who are having an elicit affair?
Inform the pastor and their spouses and if they refuse to repent, they should be removed from your church.

What is the most loving thing a parent can do for a child who comes out of the closet as gay?
Disown him and then start an investigation into who it was who molested him as a child. (Good chance is was a family member.)

I have a list of bible passages that almost no Christians know exist. Here's one that applies directly to this "conversation"...

Psalms 139: 19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.​

​

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.​

 

[Logikos]

It is never a single sentence answer. Never. It is complicated and demands more.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Do you just disagree with people for the sake of disagreeing with them or what?

 

[Logikos]

I'd like to see one single verse that says such a thing as this? Just one.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

 

[Logikos]

Yes. Self serving but it works for a time. You're no different. None of us are. You're being self serving in your theology.

So is everyone else. One does come to Christ to be saved, right?

I mean, do you think through the things you say at all?

Demanding Justice when you have nothing but Grace is self serving nonsense.

I reject the notion of an unjust God. No grace would even be possible, never mind desirable, from and unrighteous god.

 

[Ahar]

@Kenny I Love the song you posted. A peace sign made of people, how cool is that?

Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.
Proverbs 10:12

True love forgives regardless of the offense because it transcends mistreatment. Hatred has no hope but to stir up dissension and make people defensive. The good news is, love looks at being wronged as an opportunity to replace insult with encouragement. Love seeks to lead all parties into a better place of health and happiness. I think that was the point of your post:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/gods-innate-attributes.435/post-56079

Hatred can't find a home in a heart of love. It sows discord, but love plants peace. It embraces hostility, while love manifests compassion. Hate stirs up, but love calms down. How do you handle those who are hard to be around? Makes me think of that line from some old Christian humor. "God loves you and I'm trying to, stop making it so difficult."

 

[Rockson]

Outstanding question!

Thanks

All that exists, exists now. Regardless of how fast or slow one's clock is running relative to some other clock, no one ever leaves the present moment.

I get that. If you're observing two different atomic clocks they may be counting off the seconds at a different speed then us, but it is still a NOW moment both are expeicining.

Read this...

Summit Clock Experiment 2.0: Time is Absolute​

Incidentally, space does not exist. It too, like time, is an idea.

Not sure about that. It may exist in a way that we cant understand but you've heard of the fabric of space and anything with mass causing it to bend? Just how would you explain this if space isn't some type of reality?

 

[Ahar]

Love is ACTING in another's best interest!

"ACTING" Psychopaths are really good at that. But they really don't care about the feelings of others.

 

[Logikos]

Sure they do this with a great many things. I believe though time dilation is demonstrable and has been proven such. Atomic clocks do run at different speeds depending on the vantage point of the observer.

If the moon was near a black hole and you were on a ship being there your atomic clocks would run slower. Of course this could only be accepted if one goes with gravitational forces effects space time. My point about the other poster is I think TIME can be called a thing, plus my interest in this would be how these principles would connect to another thing in physics which would

demonstrate how God can observe something and not to have and need it be said he ordained anything of choices people make. I don't believe he does. Let me just say I don't believe Time dilation and more that could be said about it really isn't an insignificant thing. There is a reason and a purpose the physical universe was created and structured this way and I have a concept picture in my mind about it. Bottom line is everything is not ordained but it's probably best just to use the scripture to demonstrate this.



I see no need to accept that either. I hear ones counter that though with even if there was one who pulled the trigger?

You really ought not be so sure about modern cosmological theories. There really is good reasons to believe that science took a wrong turn at Einstein.

Black holes do not exist and neither do most of the other outlandishly preposterous astronomical entities such as neutron stars and pulsars. There are things that exist which we observe and that modern science claims are black holes and such but they aren't actually black holes (or whatever).

How can I say that with such confidence? Because they are self-contradictions....

"Deep inside the black hole a singularity exists and any object that falls into the black hole will eventually reach this singularity. At the singularity, the gravitational field becomes infinitely strong and rips apart spacetime itself. Therefore, according to the mathematics governing general relativity, any object that reaches the singularity will cease to exist – a very problematic consequence for the physical world." - The Singularity Theorem (Nobel Prize in Physics 2020)​

A thing cannot exist and not exist! Besides that, how would a non-existent thing produce gravity? If reaching the singularity wipes it out of existence then why doesn't the mass of the black hole decrease as this happens? It's just a mess of self-contradictory mathematical fantasy.

 

[Logikos]

Thanks


I get that. If you're observing two different atomic clocks they may be counting off the seconds at a different speed then us, but it is still a NOW moment both are expeicining.

Not sure about that. It may exist in a way that we cant understand but you've heard of the fabric of space and anything with mass causing it to bend? Just how would you explain this if space isn't some type of reality?


View attachment 524

I'd explain it by telling you that this does not happen!

In what direction does this "space/time" bend?

In all directions? If so, there'd be no differential by which to effect the trajectory of an object.

And there is no alternative answer to the question!


Also, one thing to notice about the illustration you posted and all others like it. Such representations presuppose gravity to make the illustration. The Moon there is supposedly only kept from ROLLING DOWN THAT HILL by its momentum past the Earth. See what I mean? It is using the concept of gravity to explain gravity. It's called "question begging" when stuff like that happens and modern cosmology is up to its neck in question begging craziness!

 

[Logikos]

"ACTING" Psychopaths are really good at that. But they really don't care about the feelings of others.

Not "acting" as in "pretending" or "being deceitful"!

I mean, "DUH!"

 

[Aeliana]

You two are impossible to have a rational discussion with.

IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS THREAD!!!!

Love is ACTING in another's best interest!

There, you see how easy that was?! Twelve whole syllables! Your emotional state of mind may or may not be involved at all. You might have a great deal of affection for the person or you may hate their guts, but if you act, whether in thought, word or deed, in a manner that is in that person's best interest then your act is an act of love - by definition.

What is the most loving thing a governing official can do to a murderer?
Publicly execute him upon his conviction.

What is the most loving thing you can do for a lazy person?
Allow his hunger pains to motivate him get off his butt and work.

What is the most loving thing you can do to members of your church who are having an elicit affair?
Inform the pastor and their spouses and if they refuse to repent, they should be removed from your church.

What is the most loving thing a parent can do for a child who comes out of the closet as gay?
Disown him and then start an investigation into who it was who molested him as a child. (Good chance is was a family member.)

I have a list of bible passages that almost no Christians know exist. Here's one that applies directly to this "conversation"...

Psalms 139: 19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!​

Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.​

20 For they speak against You wickedly;​

Your enemies take Your name in vain.​

21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?​

And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?​

22 I hate them with perfect hatred;​

I count them my enemies.​

​

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;​

Try me, and know my anxieties;​

24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,​

And lead me in the way everlasting.​

Well thanks for sharing that. It's good to know where you're coming from.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/gods-innate-attributes.435/post-56135

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13

 

[Logikos]

@Kenny I Love the song you posted. A peace sign made of people, how cool is that?

Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.
Proverbs 10:12

True love forgives regardless of the offense because it transcends mistreatment. Hatred has no hope but to stir up dissension and make people defensive. The good news is, love looks at being wronged as an opportunity to replace insult with encouragement. Love seeks to lead all parties into a better place of health and happiness. I think that was the point of your post:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/gods-innate-attributes.435/post-56079

Hatred can't find a home in a heart of love. It sows discord, but love plants peace. It embraces hostility, while love manifests compassion. Hate stirs up, but love calms down. How do you handle those who are hard to be around? Makes me think of that line from some old Christian humor. "God loves you and I'm trying to, stop making it so difficult."

So says you.

Are you a Christian?

If so, would the bible directly contradicting you matter to you?

If not, what would?

Psalms 139:19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.

 

[Ahar]

Not "acting" as in "pretending" or "being deceitful"!

I mean, "DUH!"

Exactly, "DUH!"

 

[Ahar]

So says you.

Are you a Christian?

If so, would the bible directly contradicting you matter to you?

If not, what would?

Psalms 139:19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.

Yeah I don't really think in today's society slaying wicked people is a good idea. Unless your God is Allah. Are you a Muslim?