Gods Inability to save

[brightfame52]

Israel was Gods covenant people- chosen and elect. So much for His covenant people.

All for whom He shed His Blood for are His Covenant People Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament/covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Gentiles were included as Covenant People Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Thats why Paul was sent to the Gentiles to give light to Gods covenant people
Acts 26:17-18

17 ;Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[TedT]

I'm glad you admit being chosen/elect of God does not mean anyone is saved.

There is no need to throw out the baby / election with the bath water / the false doctrine of UNconditional election...

Election is the promise of salvation by redemption if it should ever be needed and is given to people before the foundation of the world... What's wrong with that?

 

[GodsGrace]

I just got done answering that question. Go back and re-read my posts, my explanation, and re-read them as many times as it takes to correctly understand what was posted. THEN 1) do not ask me again a question I have already answered and 2) post something that moves the discussion further given the answer to the question asked.

Oh dear.
JoshebB doesn't understand how a Forum works.

Do you believe I'm going to sit here and read through 80 posts so I could know what you believe?

Sorry Josh...I know what you believe and my question will NEVER be answered either correctly or satisfactorily by and Calvinist.

Calvinism is not biblical.
Everything that you explain is heretical and comes out of a different gospel.

If YOUR God is so sovereign....as if the REAL God is not....

then of course His two wills would be able to get everybody saved.

BUT

He doesn't have TWO wills...God has only ONE.

and

Salvation is a gift from God
but
Man has to WANT it....as in FREE WILL.

 

[TedT]

yetIf God desires everyone to be saved.....
WHY aren't they?
Is God unable to save everyone even though He wants to?

Why do some end in hell though GOD wishes they would not? Conflicting desires...


IF we were created as eternally self and other aware spirits and
IF we were all created with a free will and
IF there is an unforgivable sin, a sin that puts the person outside of all grace, Matt 12:3, Mk 3:29, and
IF some of HIS creation chose to sin the unforgivable sin and
IF it is true that a little leaven / sin leavens / corrupts the whole lump / person / community, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Galatians 5:9 then
IF the only way to protect HIS Church and heavenly Family from these eternally evil people was to banish them from HIS heavenly reality,
THEN hell, the outer darkness, is an absolute necessity to keep the eternally evil ones from corrupting HIS heaven.

Such a decision is forced upon HIS will by their will since it is obvious that their death in hell is not by HIS will yet their eternal sinfulness cannot be allowed to fester in HIS heavenly marriage.

 

[JoshebB]

Oh dear.
JoshebB doesn't understand how a Forum works.

If the best you can do is ad hominem then, thank you for your time but you're being obnoxious, and we're done. If you can stay on topic then do so.

I do not answer questions already answered and I do not trade posts with trolls. That's how the forum works when trading posts with me. You can do it any way you like, but you cannot do it anyway you like with me because forums do not work at all when posters ignore what's already been posted, feel entitle to ask whatever they like when their questions have already been answered and think ad hominem, red herrings, and strawmen are functional or godly.

Sorry Josh...I know what you believe and my question will NEVER be answered either correctly or satisfactorily by and Calvinist. Calvinism is not biblical.

I never mentioned Calvin or Calvinism. What I did do is point out the many examples of bad exegesis and the lapses in reason, using scripture, not Calvinism, to prove the points. Nice red herring, though. If you can stay on topic then do so. Otherwise, you're being obnoxious. It's particularly ironic given your handle.

 

[Dizerner]

Keep in mind the fact most of the Bible is about people already living in a God-initiated Christological covenant. Very few examples exist of interactions with God outside the covenant relationship..... but you're invited to provide such an example if you can find one.

Would you say you align with Presbyterian theology fairly well?

I'm just wondering...

 

[Presby02]

Well lets see how this goes with the other 2 "omni's "

Does God restrain his knowledge ?
Does God restrain His presence ?

I'm looking forward to your answers.

Nope and nope.

Does God have the power to destroy the planet in the blink of a eye?

Looking forward to your answer.

 

[Presby02]

He does know, that's how.

You can throw two dice and roll doubles in an open future. But concerning God it's a paradox. God cannot err in what He foreknows.

So when you throw the dice God knows the outcome correct?

 

[Kampioen]

So when you throw the dice God knows the outcome correct?

Yes. God knows the outcome of an open future.

 

[brightfame52]

@TedT

Why do some end in hell though GOD wishes they would not? Conflicting desires...

God doesnt have conflicting desires, He has formed a people specifically for the day of wrath and destruction , these are the vessels of He fits for destruction, thats His desire will for them upon making them, never salvation. Rom 9:20-22

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Prov 16:4

4 ;The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now this people God never loved, nor appointed to salvation, nor did Christ ever become their Surety in the everlasting Covenant of Salvation,

It would be a conflict of Divine Purpose for God to desire their salvation.

 

[ProDeo]

What do you think the purpose of this Libertarianism is?

Adam and Eve insisted to know (like God) the difference between good and evil. They got what the wanted, kicked out of Paradise (a heavenly place) on a hostile earth where death ruled as a necessity, eat or be eaten, a perfect place to learn the so much desired difference between good and evil. It's purpose? One of the various, a lesson in obedience.

 

[brightfame52]

Adam and Eve insisted to know (like God) the difference between good and evil. They got what the wanted, kicked out of Paradise (a heavenly place) on a hostile earth where death ruled as a necessity, eat or be eaten, a perfect place to learn the so much desired difference between good and evil. It's purpose? One of the various, a lesson in obedience.

Adam and Eve did what God had purposed for them to do to fulfill His eternal purpose He formed in Christ before they were created Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do some end in hell though GOD wishes they would not? Conflicting desires...


IF we were created as eternally self and other aware spirits and
IF we were all created with a free will and
IF there is an unforgivable sin, a sin that puts the person outside of all grace, Matt 12:3, Mk 3:29, and
IF some of HIS creation chose to sin the unforgivable sin and
IF it is true that a little leaven / sin leavens / corrupts the whole lump / person / community, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Galatians 5:9 then
IF the only way to protect HIS Church and heavenly Family from these eternally evil people was to banish them from HIS heavenly reality,
THEN hell, the outer darkness, is an absolute necessity to keep the eternally evil ones from corrupting HIS heaven.

Such a decision is forced upon HIS will by their will since it is obvious that their death in hell is not by HIS will yet their eternal sinfulness cannot be allowed to fester in HIS heavenly marriage.

You won't get any argument from me!

Unfortunately, this is not what Calvinism teaches...
I was referring to Calvinism.

Thanks for the wonderful reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

If the best you can do is ad hominem then, thank you for your time but you're being obnoxious, and we're done. If you can stay on topic then do so.

This is too sweet !

I was being ad hominem,,,,but YOU call ME obnoxious!

Here's is my post to which you are referring:
Please show WHERE I posted an ad hominem.
That you do not understand how a Forum works...is obvious.
But what did I say about YOU??

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

Oh dear.
JoshebB doesn't understand how a Forum works.

Do you believe I'm going to sit here and read through 80 posts so I could know what you believe?

Sorry Josh...I know what you believe and my question will NEVER be answered either correctly or satisfactorily by and Calvinist.

Calvinism is not biblical.
Everything that you explain is heretical and comes out of a different gospel.

If YOUR God is so sovereign....as if the REAL God is not....

then of course His two wills would be able to get everybody saved.

BUT

He doesn't have TWO wills...God has only ONE.

and

Salvation is a gift from God
but
Man has to WANT it....as in FREE WILL.

I do not answer questions already answered and I do not trade posts with trolls.

Too sweet !
So now I'm a troll too.
Another ad hominem.

And you STILL don't understand how a Forum works.

So I'M a troll, but YOU are the one posting statements that might upset me...
Interesting.

Of course they won't.
Know why?

Your behavior is par for the course.
Most Calvinists behave as you are.
No surprise.

I'd love to understand WHY this is so...
but, alas, I never will.

That's how the forum works when trading posts with me. You can do it any way you like, but you cannot do it anyway you like with me

No problem.
I don't plan on posting to you.
It would take just too much time to go back and read all your posts.

because forums do not work at all when posters ignore what's already been posted,

Ooooh.
This is just too funny!

feel entitle to ask whatever they like when their questions have already been answered and think ad hominem, red herrings, and strawmen are functional or godly.

I never mentioned Calvin or Calvinism. What I did do is point out the many examples of bad exegesis and the lapses in reason, using scripture, not Calvinism, to prove the points. Nice red herring, though. If you can stay on topic then do so. Otherwise, you're being obnoxious. It's particularly ironic given your handle.

Obnoxious again.

Thanks for the laughs!

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope and nope.

Does God have the power to destroy the planet in the blink of a eye?

Looking forward to your answer.

I think God already did once.....

I think He said He wouldn't do it again.

God has the power to do anything He wants to do.

Apparently, however, He just can't seem to get everyone saved..
even though He WOULD WANT TO....

Odd.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Now why do you suppose that is?
Is God sovereign or not?

 

[civic]

Nope and nope.

Does God have the power to destroy the planet in the blink of a eye?

Looking forward to your answer.

So you agree one of the omni's are restrained, thanks.

 

[Kampioen]

@TedT God doesnt have conflicting desires, He has formed a people specifically for the day of wrath and destruction , these are the vessels of He fits for destruction, thats His desire will for them upon making them, never salvation.

Rom 9:20-22 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

If they can question God, then they at least have libertarian free will to do so.

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Prov 16:4

If God has to endure longsuffering, then something was undetermined. Why would God have to endure an unconditional predetemination?

4 ;The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now this people God never loved, nor appointed to salvation, nor did Christ ever become their Surety in the everlasting Covenant of Salvation,

God designed for the wicked to be punished, not unconditionally predetermined them to be wicked.

It would be a conflict of Divine Purpose for God to desire their salvation.

It is not a conflict if God desires all to be saved if He prefers libertarian free will over just saving them all.

 

[brightfame52]

@Kampioen

If they can question God, then they at least have libertarian free will to do so.

If you say so

If God has to endure longsuffering, then something was undetermined. Why would God have to endure an unconditional predetemination?

Why not, isnt He God and does what He pleases ?

God designed for the wicked to be punished, not unconditionally predetermined them to be wicked.

They are a people He made to be punished for their sins, and yes He predetermined to do that

It is not a conflict if God desires all to be saved if He prefers libertarian free will over just saving them all.

Where you get this riddle from ?

 

[brightfame52]

@civic

God cannot save everyone as God is not able to save everyone. God saves those who come to Him by faith.

This is a horrible thing to say about God friend " God is not able to save everyone" Matt 19:25-26

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[civic]

@civic



This is a horrible thing to say about God friend " God is not able to save everyone" Matt 19:25-26

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

hell exists and all men are created in the image of God. most are lost, not saved. That is inability.

this is why your doctrine against free will is heretical along with your doctrine of sovereignty.

next fallacy.