Mercy for some Unbelievers

[brightfame52]

Rom 11:32

32 ;For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

There are unbelievers in this world that are not condemned, but are objects of and shall obtain mercy from God,

Like the Apostle Paul, even as an raging lunatic persecutor and in ignorance, and a enemy to Jesus Christ, God never condemned him, but made him an object of His Mercy 1 Tim 1:12-13

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Yes even though Saul of Tarsus didn't know it at the time of his madness, all that time he was, along with others, a vessel of mercy !

Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
There are other elect vessels of mercy in unbelief that shall experientially obtain mercy Rom 11:30-31

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

They have not believed, that they may obtain mercy. They are unbelievers but they are elect !

So unbelieving elect people are not under wrath and condemnation as these are Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[TibiasDad]

Rom 11:32

32 ;For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

1) To whom does “bound everyone over” refer? The context says that all Jews and Gentiles, that meaning every single individual regardless of their race, have been bound over to disobedience/unbelief.

2) “…so that he may” is the critical part of the statement. The phrase is a subjunctive mood statement, which indicates a potential occurrence is established. Everyone is bound over “in order that” God can potentially have mercy…

3) “…on them all”. Now to whom does “them all” refer? It is “everyone” who were bound over to disobedience/unbelief (ἀπείθεια) apetheia. (From whence we get our word “apathy” and “apathetic”)

Thus, if all are bound over to disobedience/unbelief, then the same “all” are those on whom God might potentially have mercy. Gentiles received mercy because Israel refused to believe, and this show that if God had mercy on Gentiles who believe, he may also have mercy on Israel if they believe.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

1) To whom does “bound everyone over” refer?

You need to pay attention, I already said. It refers to the elect vessels of mercy, unbelievers whom God will have mercy on.

 

[TibiasDad]

Rom 11:32

32 ;For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

1) To whom does “bound everyone over” refer? The context says that all Jews and Gentiles, that meaning every single individual regardless of their race, have been bound over to disobedience/unbelief.

2) “…so that he may” is the critical part of the statement. The phrase is a subjunctive mood statement, which indicates a potential occurrence is established. Everyone is bound over “in order that” God can potentially have mercy…

3) “…on them all”. Now to whom does “them all” refer? It is “everyone” who were bound over to disobedience/unbelief (ἀπείθεια) apetheia. (From whence we get our word “apathy” and “apathetic”)

Thus, if all are bound over to disobedience/unbelief, then the same “all” are those on whom God might potentially have mercy. Gentiles received mercy because Israel refused to believe, and this show that if God had mercy on Gentiles who believe, he may also have mercy on Israel if they believe.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 11:30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Its the elect, from among the jews and Gentiles. And this shows that all unbelievers are condemned. Just the non elect ones.

 

[TibiasDad]

Its the elect, from among the jews and Gentiles. And this shows that all unbelievers are condemned. Just the non elect ones.

You’re reading that into the text; the text doesn’t say that! Thus, eisegesis not exegesis!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You need to pay attention, I already said. It refers to the elect vessels of mercy, unbelievers whom God will have mercy on.

Its the elect, from among the jews and Gentiles. And this shows that all unbelievers are condemned. Just the non elect ones.

No it doesn’t; it means all mankind. There is no mention of the “elect” per se.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

You’re reading that into the text; the text doesn’t say that! Thus, eisegesis not exegesis!

Doug

Not its the truth, unfortunately you cant see it

 

[brightfame52]

No it doesn’t; it means all mankind.

No it doesnt, you reading that into the text and context.

 

[TibiasDad]

No it doesnt, you reading that into the text and context.

Without the specific mention of a particular set of people, such as the elect, Jews, Gentiles, etc, the whole of humanity is the default meaning of all. Hermeneutics 101!
“All have sinned and fallen short” means every single person.

10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

All of us are enemies of God, but Jesus reconciled the world to God so that God might extend grace to the world. When we believe, we shall be saved through his life/resurrection from the dead.

This is a theological principle of truth: we have been reconciled by the blood, and we will be saved if we believe by his resurrection from death.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (those who have already believed), and not only ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1John 2:2

The whole world can be saved! That is the good news! That is the gospel! There is no good news if I cannot partake; there is no good news if God has chosen for himself that some will necessarily be saved and some will necessarily not be saved. Especially if we do not know who the elect are. The gospel says whoever believes (not whoever is given belief), yet that is not true if I am “passed over” or not chosen to be able to believe. That is not good news for the non-elect. At best the Calvinistic gospel is a message of perhaps you can be saved if God has chosen you.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Without the specific mention of a particular set of people, such as the elect, Jews, Gentiles, etc, the whole of humanity is the default meaning of all. Hermeneutics 101!

Garbage. Its about the elect. The elect from among the jews and the elect from among the gentiles, their unbelief was for the purpose of mercy, a simple exchange

 

[TibiasDad]

Garbage. Its about the elect. The elect from among the jews and the elect from among the gentiles, their unbelief was for the purpose of mercy, a simple exchange

Eisegesis!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Eisegesis!

Doug

No its the truth, you unfortunately cant see it, understand it, and thats Gods department to give understanding.

 

[TibiasDad]

No its the truth, you unfortunately cant see it, understand it, and thats Gods department to give understanding.

32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Paul says “everyone” has been “bound over to disobedience”; not just some, but everyone. The “all” in “that he might have mercy on them all”, refers to anyone that he has bound over to disobedience.

In context, he is speaking of all unbelieving Jews, but by logical extension, all people, for God doesn’t just save all Jewish individuals and forsake some of the Gentiles. That would violate his being impartial.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Again thats the elect from among jews and gentiles

 

[civic]

You’re reading that into the text; the text doesn’t say that! Thus, eisegesis not exegesis!

Doug

Yep eisegesis 101 at work

 

[TibiasDad]

Again thats the elect from among jews and gentiles

It doesn’t say only the elect; it says everyone! You are reading the elect exclusively into it, and that it is only the elect cannot be hermeneutically demonstrated.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn’t say only the elect;

It is the elect. Theres a remnant according to the election of grace from among the jews and a remnant according to the election of grace from among the Gentiles, they all start off their life in unbelief. for the purpose of mercy being shown them by God

 

[TibiasDad]

It is the elect. Theres a remnant according to the election of grace from among the jews and a remnant according to the election of grace from among the Gentiles, they all start off their life in unbelief. for the purpose of mercy being shown them by God

It doesn’t say only the elect exclusively. It says “everyone” was bound; no distinctions or exclusions.

And again, “that he may have mercy” is a subjective of potential mood for “all” that have been bound over to disobedience. As I recall, everybody is bound over to disobedience, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn’t say only the elect exclusively.

It doesnt have to, just have to mean it.