Does God have the ability to give us libertarian free will?
Gods Inability to save
- Thread starter civic
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Does God have the ability to give us libertarian free will?
civic
Well-known member
Love it
brightfame52
Well-known member
@civic
Oh No only the children of God, not the children of the devil. Those who were made in Gods Image will have it restored through Christs redemptive work, New Creature Eph 4:23-24
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col 3:10
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
The children of devil or of the wicked one were never made in Gods Image, Matt 13:37-39
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 he field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Oh No only the children of God, not the children of the devil. Those who were made in Gods Image will have it restored through Christs redemptive work, New Creature Eph 4:23-24
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col 3:10
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
The children of devil or of the wicked one were never made in Gods Image, Matt 13:37-39
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 he field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
brightfame52
Well-known member
He does, but He didnt
civic
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing there to you, Im posting what I see
civic
Well-known member
This one verse trumps your false doctrine concerning fallen man made in Gods image.
Genesis 9:6- “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.
James affirms this below
James 3:9- With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God.
And Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:7- For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
brightfame52
Well-known member
No it doesnt, Gods elect were made in the Image of God in Adam. Both of those verses pertain to the elect
civic
Well-known member
nope James said those people Christians curse are made in the image of God.
next fallacy
brightfame52
Well-known member
Okay. The children of the devil arent in the image of God, but in the image of their father the devil Jn 6:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Jesus says God isnt their Father Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Explain how people who God isnt their Father are made in His Image ?
civic
Well-known member
all men are created in the image of God which is why God redeems fallen man and not the angels.
next fallacy
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you say so. But none who were originally made in the Image of God, shall be Lost, only the serpent seed Matt 23:32-33
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
JoshebB
Active member
Relevance?
JoshebB
Active member
Yep. That's because people who employ ad hominem in avoidance of the salient concerns are being obnoxious. If you do not like it then don't do ad hominem. This op is about God's supposed inability to save but that premise is prima facie absurd. If you can keep your comments pertinent to that subject then I may consider that content, but until then you're being obnoxious, and I have no interest in that.
civic
Well-known member
JoshebB
Active member
That is NOT inability.
The op is a strawman.
Why, therefore, are the doctrine against free will not being accurately portrayed? Why is the strawman not being corrected? Why is the misleading of others with a strawman ongoing? Why is there no expression of repentance?
Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things which the LORD hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.
No one minds you disagreeing with monergism. That is not the problem. Knowledgeable, willful deceit is the problem. When you provide proof of an authoritative monergist explicitly stating God is unable to save anyone then, and only then, will this op have any merit. However, even were that to occur, I suspect every monergist here will join you repudiating that individual's position. I, for one, will do so. Monergism is not monolithic so it might be possible to find someone in that viewpoint who does not well represent monergism but I am skeptical you will find such a person. That evidence, that proof, should have been provided in the op and it wasn't.
What is found in the op is a very poor use of scripture, one that is so bad it borders on abuse because the verses are used selectively, the surrounding text is ignored, the audience affiliations are ignored, the stated contexts are ignored, and relevant passages in other books are ignored. This op is a bad op. It's so bad I thought it was a joke at first because I know you to be more intelligent than that op would indicate.
Either provide proof the doctrine against free will holds God unable or fix the false accusation.
JoshebB
Active member
Incorrect. Because synergism is much more diverse than monergism when it comes to the premise of God's inability the question I asked is valid and op-relevant. Some synergisms do hold God unable, and unable to save given specific conditions. Nowhere relevant to this op does monergism teach God is unable.relevance ?
as the saying goes whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many schemes.
I reject the Calvinist idea that the forming of the lives to destruction could by any possibility refer to their creation as reprobate. Therefore I am happy to use the hints and references to our life before the foundation of the earth to commit my faith to accepting our pre-earthly lives,
- that our election and reprobation were based upon our free will acceptance or rejection of YHWH's proclamation of the gospel to everyone under heaven, ie all people created in HIS image,
- that HE had us choose our own eternal FATES by faith in HIM as Lord and Saviour OR against HIM as a false god and a liar,
and
- then gives us LIVES on earth based upon and fulfilling our previous choice of faith as either elected to be saved from all consequences of sinfulness or as fitted to destruction after being an educational bad example for HIS sinful elect to aid in their sanctification as seen in Matt 13:27-30.
GOD is HOLY, HE is love and HE is light.
Light cannot create darkness...there is no source of light which when activated can possibly turn on darkness.
Love cannot do harm by putting forth evil, Rom 13:10.
A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit, Mat 7:18.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water, James 3:11.
Psalm 5:4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell. so how and why would HE ever have created evil people, just to consign them to hell??? Claiming ignorance of HIS motive is not acceptable in light of the vast exposure HE has given us describing HIMself and HIS motives!
I believe the Platonic based definitions we use today should be revisited and revised...
HE desires no one perish in hell, yet some will, so obviously not - HE does send them to hell against HIS pleasure! 1 Timothy 2:4 and Ezekiel 33:11 proves that HE does not always get what HE pleases so HE must choose to do that which does not please HIM sometimes.
I contend that HE determined to do that AFTER we chose our eternal fates by placing our faith in HIM or against HIM, a faith without proof, only a desire to live a cording to HIS nature or to rebel against HIS nature.
