Sorry you are ignoring what the text does state
Romans 8:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
All Israel was called
Free-willer Straw Man Argument
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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Romans 8:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
All Israel was called
LOL, no one said it did. The point is He chose them. Chose them why you ask? Good question. To be the first fruits to be saved.
What it does not say is He chose them because they chose Him. Just the opposte.
All Israel, not the whole world.
Behold
Well-known member
God knowing everything is not the same as God causing everything.
That is the "fatal flaw" of John Calvinism's theology.
So, because he could not understand "Foreknowledge" he falsely redefined it as "pre-destined".
Ive never met a disciple of John Calvinism who could understand this, until they do, and then they leave TULIP<> Forever.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
God knowing everything and choosing not to change any of it is the same as God being the first cause of everything.
Foreknowledge = those WHOM HE FOREKNEW, as opposed to "depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU". Foreknowledge is not God having foresight into what they would do.
civic
Well-known member
who does God foreknow in scripture ?
do you have a bible reference to be examined for God foreknowing anyone ?
who are you inferring said anything in scripture about God foreknowing an individual ?
civic
Well-known member
where is this "first cause" assumption in the bible regarding God ?
Which is a clear violation of God aseity.
What it does say is that God chose you onto salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. Since God does not believe for you then it stands to reason that election unto salvation is conditional on our belief.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV) — 13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Yup, those are the means He uses. Notice the word through. It's not because of.
So we still have God doing the choosing.
civic
Well-known member
So all along you did mean Romans 8 so you owe @TomL an apology.
I knew its what you were referencing since its the only passage in the bible mentioning it.
I don't forget anything I post, scriptures I've memorized or questions I have already answered and debunked.
hope this helps !!!
There's no getting around the fact that the word "through" makes that verse conditional. Since God does not believe for you then it stands to reason that election unto salvation is conditional on our belief.
No. I don't. I never referenced Romans 8.
When you apologize to John MacArthur
I will apologize. Deal?
Through is the means. Through has nothing to do with conditions.
No one says God believes for you. That's is simply the Provisionist strawman playback coming to life.
civic
Well-known member
No I do not compromise truth with error. I will not ever affirm any false teachers and doctrines. I stand firm on everything I have ever said about Mac or any other teacher or theologian for that matter. False doctrines need to be exposed regardless of who's mouth they come from. The Truth always exposes the lies, false teachings, doctrines of demons, the spirit of antichrist, wolves in sheeps clothing etc.......
You on the other hand just admitted to compromising your integrity. What a shame.
The deal you just tried to make is similar to the one in the garden and Jesus in the wilderness. I know from what "spirit" it originates. I have the gift of the discerning of the spirits.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Just Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Is that all?
All you false prophets ALWAYS desire to limit God to yourselves. Satan has the same issue. Satan can't have God so he tries to make sure that no one else can......
Behold
Well-known member
"Whom God foreknew"....
= God knows "whom" is going to trust in Christ before they are born.
Now, how to screw that up, so that people believe it means....."God chose them", vs KNEW what they would choose?
A.) Welcome to Calvinism.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Now explain how Jesus could say, "I never knew you". According to your twisted interpretation, that would mean "I never knew what you would choose".
