Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Jim]

I would urge you to pray seriously to God, because every unbeliever thinks the Scripture is "weird."

So you think I am an unbeliever since I think what you believe is weird. That is weird.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then you weren't saved when you thought you were. God keeps His promises. And if He gives an "IF/THEN" promise, it ALWAYS means IF/THEN. He doesn't give the "THEN" if the "IF" is missing.

Sure I was. I experienced the new birth. It was miraculous. Always is.

I am dealing with what you wrote. We don't get the down payment until we are saved/in Christ/forgiven/redeemed. And that happens while we are buried with Him in baptism, not before.

Do you remember when David begged God to not take the Spirit away from him? You must realize that David loved the presence of God. I do too. I don't need you to tell me when I experienced/experience such. I know when.

We are not going to agree on this. Never have. What I want to deal with is the very fact of the "down payment".

So then, if there were many who were in Christ and fell away, then their salvation was lost, and it can continue to happen today. OSAS is a false doctrine.

I don't teach "OSAS". Not my doctrine. Apostasy isn't about losing salvation. It is about the continuation of the message of God. The teaching of God. You're actually in apostasy yourself. I don't judge you as being absent the Spirit of God.

Yes, there is the need for endurance, and forgiveness. That is not at issue. What James is addressing is that if a person is unrepentant, then they are lost. But if a faithful brother or sister turns them back to repentance, then they are saved from Hell and turned back to life.

So lets get into this a little deeper.....

So tell me when you become lost. Give me a distinct answer. Don't tell me that you are being chasten for sin and lost. Those two things don't go together. God chastens those that are sons.

I would to God that some Ariminian would actually define such.

There is a sin unto to death, but even then, I don't believe such is actually an disqualifying event.

So lets keep going.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you think I am an unbeliever since I think what you believe is weird. That is weird.

I Jim, @Red Baker @TibiasDad @civic

Thank you all for the prayers!

I lost all my alerts somehow. I saw several in there I think from you previously. They might expire. I don't see any of my history anymore.

If I owe you anything, please let me know.

Thanks

 

[Jim]

I don't think it's salvific.

But Christians do not realize what the Judgment Seat of Christ means.

The Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ is not to determine between eternal life and eternal condemnation. That is determined and settled before one dies and is resurrected. All, those who have received eternal life and those who have not, will be called to answer for what he has done. We are justified by faith, but yet judged by works. We are not given much information about this judgment, but we can perhaps get a sense of it from the passage in Revelation 20:11-15.

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

There we read that there are books and a book to be opened. The first books appear to contain a record of our life, the second book, the book of life, contains a list of those who, during their physical life here on earth, received eternal life. The phrase, "judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds", would seem to indicate that there will be a range of rewards, both in heaven and in hell.

 

[Jim]

Sure I was. I experienced the new birth. It was miraculous. Always is.

Just as an aside, it wasn't miraculous. Biblical miracles, strictly speaking, are (1) physically performed by a human being, (2) physically and visibly witnessed by other human beings, and (3) actions which are counter to God's natural laws of nature. Their purpose is always, primarily, to give divine legitimacy to what the one performing the miracle is about to say or do. The new birth is not something that may be witnessed physically.

The new birth is a spiritual act of redemption by God. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just as an aside, it wasn't miraculous. Biblical miracles, strictly speaking, are (1) physically performed by a human being, (2) physically and visibly witnessed by other human beings, and (3) actions which are counter to God's natural laws of nature. Their purpose is always, primarily, to give divine legitimacy to what the one performing the miracle is about to say or do. The new birth is not something that may be witnessed physically.

The new birth is a spiritual act of redemption by God. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The wind has a source and has a destination. Just because you can't see it with your eyes doesn't mean it is supernatural. I personally don't believe the word "supernatural" and the way it is used relates much of anything. It comes from Latin and simply means "from above". Everything good comes from above. This includes love and many good things which reside in nature.

When I said miraculous, it is good to note that Teras and Terra have a connection in Greek and Latin to creation itself.

I experienced the creation of the new creature. I can list several ways they similar in the earth. You shouldn't discount the similarities. After all, Peter spoke of how the Word of God formed this earth. In similar fashion, it formed in me a new creature. I felt it. I more than felt it. I'm still feeling it many years later. It is never ending drink of life itself. Miraculous. Always is.

 

[civic]

The wind has a source and has a destination. Just because you can't see it with your eyes doesn't mean it is supernatural. I personally don't believe the word "supernatural" and the way it is used relates much of anything. It comes from Latin and simply means "from above". Everything good comes from above. This includes love and many good things which reside in nature.

When I said miraculous, it is good to note that Teras and Terra have a connection in Greek and Latin to creation itself.

I experienced the creation of the new creature. I can list several ways they similar in the earth. You shouldn't discount the similarities. After all, Peter spoke of how the Word of God formed this earth. In similar fashion, it formed in me a new creature. I felt it. I more than felt it. I'm still feeling it many years later. It is never ending drink of life itself. Miraculous. Always is.

And we know the gospel is the very power of God unto salvation as per Romans 1:16-17. That power is supernatural, miraculous