Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Jim]

Right, but you are reading things into this you want it to say.

It's not entirely clear what Paul means.

He could be talking about newborn Christians who bear the fruit of the Spirit without even knowing about the OT.

He could be talking about a God-given conscience that in some ways will conform morally but still falls short.

But whatever he means, he does not mean you are justified through the Law—ever.

Just a quick read through Romans 3 makes that crystal clear.

That is truly weird.

 

[Doug Brents]

to @Doug Brents who laughed at this post

says the man trying to earn his way to heaven

dude. Find the gospel. then you can laugh, until then, your laughs mean nothing

I have the Gospel, and am not in any way trying to "earn" my way to Heaven.
Next fallacy?

 

[Dizerner]

its a belief system.

I dount this will get someone disqualified for heaven

because no one can ever be qualified for heaven

I don't think it's salvific.

But Christians do not realize what the Judgment Seat of Christ means.

Christians think "Jesus loves me and forgives all my sins" means they will never face a real accountability and fearful God for their unrepentant and deliberate stubborn high-handed sins.

I've met God in ways that shook me to the core, and I understand the atonement as much as anyone.

When God "chastens" his children, he doesn't just tap them on the wrist.

It's genuinely frightening what some Christians will face.

The idea that Jesus' Blood makes them all get off scot-free inculcates a spoiled and undisciplined spirit.

And that servant who knew his master's will,
and did not prepare himself or do according to his will,
shall be beaten with many stripes. (Lk. 12:47 NKJ)

Please notice this is a servant of the Master—not an unbeliever.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I have the Gospel, and am not in any way trying to "earn" my way to Heaven.
Next fallacy?

lol..

So you do not teach we must be immersed in water and salvation can be lost?

when did you repent of these beliefs?

 

[Dizerner]

That is truly weird.

I would urge you to pray seriously to God, because every unbeliever thinks the Scripture is "weird."

We do not set up a justice system that makes us happy, that is not approaching God on the right grounds.

I am hopeful you at least admit your sin before a holy God and believe in hell and the need for Christ's suffering.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I don't think it's salvific.

But Christians do not realize what the Judgment Seat of Christ means.

Christians "Jesus loves me and forgives all my sins" means they will face a real accountability and fearful God for their unrepentant and deliberate stubborn high-handed sins.

I've met God in ways that shook me to the core, and I understand the atonement as much as anyone.

When God "chastens" his children, he doesn't just tap them on the wrist.

It's genuinely frightening what some Christians will face.

The idea that Jesus' Blood makes them all get off scot-free inculcates a spoiled and undisciplined spirit.

And that servant who knew his master's will,
and did not prepare himself or do according to his will,
shall be beaten with many stripes. (Lk. 12:47 NKJ)

Please notice this is a servant of the Master—not an unbeliever.

they are still children of God. if they were saved. they are disciplined children of God but children all the same

if they are not saved. they never were

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I would urge you to pray seriously to God, because every unbeliever thinks the Scripture is "weird."

We do not set up a justice system that makes us happy, that is not approaching God on the right grounds.

I am hopeful you at least admit your sin before a holy God and believe in hell and the need for Christ's suffering.

james said if we stumble in one point. we are guilty of all


Thats God's standard.. Or as Jesus said it. be perfect as your father is perfect.

thats Gods standard.

sadly ALL have sinned and fall short..

 

[Dizerner]

they are still children of God. if they were saved. they are disciplined children of God but children all the same

if they are not saved. they never were

Jesus' Blood does not mean we stop fearing God.

Let me tell you, it will not be what many Christians think.

They are spoiled by the idea of grace and mercy.

 

[Doug Brents]

So you do not teach we must be immersed in water

In order to receive salvation, yes...

and salvation can be lost?

I do indeed teach what the Bible teaches.

when did you repent of these beliefs?

I would never repent of the Truth.
But contrary to what you asserted in post #3374, these do not constitute "earning" salvation, regardless of whatever accusations and assertions you make.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Jesus' Blood does not mean we stop fearing God.

Well jesus did say he has not given us a spirit of fear but of a sound mind. and not only this, we can come to him as our ABBA

Let me tell you, it will not be what many Christians think.

They are spoiled by the idea of grace and mercy.

Sadly. People spit on grace and mercy and try to add their own works.. these are the people who will need to fear..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

In order to receive salvation, yes...

then you teach works

I do indeed teach what the Bible teaches.

No. you teach works

I would never repent of the Truth.
But contrary to what you asserted in post #3374, these do not constitute "earning" salvation, regardless of whatever accusations and assertions you make.

well since you do not have truth. You need to repent.

You just accused me of saying you preach works..

and you just proved i was right

You could confess for falsly accusing me,, But I doubt you will.

 

[Doug Brents]

then you teach works

Your perverted understanding of what that means is clear from your posts. But the necessity of taking actions of faith in order to qualify to receive God's gift of salvation is not "works" as you understand it.

well since you do not have truth. You need to repent.

There is much for which I have repented, but I will never repent of teaching God's Truth.

You just accused me of saying you preach works..

and you just proved i was right

You could confess for falsly accusing me,, But I doubt you will.

If I had falsely accused you, I would confess and repent of it. But since I have never accused you falsely, I have nothing of which to repent in this case.
Next.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Your perverted understanding of what that means is clear from your posts. But the necessity of taking actions of faith in order to qualify to receive God's gift of salvation is not "works" as you understand it.

If you have to qualify to receive a gift. It’s not a gift.

You have a perverted understanding of what a gift is

There is much for which I have repented, but I will never repent of teaching God's Truth.

When you teach Gids truth I will listen

If I had falsely accused you, I would confess and repent of it. But since I have never accused you falsely, I have nothing of which to repent in this case.
Next.

You just proved once again you preach works

You don’t have to confess to me. I would confess to God and ask him why his death is not enough

 

[Dizerner]

Christ's death is enough, but we will be severely responsible for teaching any false doctrines to others.

Let us stay sober minded and serious.

 

[Doug Brents]

If you have to qualify to receive a gift. It’s not a gift.

You have a perverted understanding of what a gift is

If I give you a car, but you have to go to the dealer to receive it, does it cease to be a gift? Absolutely not.
Did the fact that Naaman had to dip in Jordan seven times mean that being cured of leprosy was not a gift from God? Again, no.
Did the fact that Israel had to march around Jericho for the walls to fall mean that the city was not gifted to them? Again, NO.

When you teach Gids truth I will listen

I already have, and you have closed your ears and blinded your eyes.

You just proved once again you preach works

You don’t have to confess to me. I would confess to God and ask him why his death is not enough

SMH, you have no understanding. So I am done with you. I pray that God will pierce through the hardness of your heart, open your eyes, and unstop your ears before it is too late.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If I give you a car, but you have to go to the dealer to receive it, does it cease to be a gift? Absolutely not.

God comes to you he does not tell you to go get your gift. He hands it to you

Keep trying. You trying to redeem spiritual things with things of the world. Your still trying to merit salvation

Did the fact that Naaman had to dip in Jordan seven times mean that being cured of leprosy was not a gift from God? Again, no.
Did the fact that Israel had to march around Jericho for the walls to fall mean that the city was not gifted to them? Again, NO.

Under the law yes. Or he would have been rejected by the Jews. As still unclean

I already have, and you have closed your ears and blinded your eyes.

I am not trying to earn. Merit or complet my salvation by my futile deeds my friend

SMH, you have no understanding. So I am done with you. I pray that God will pierce through the hardness of your heart, open your eyes, and unstop your ears before it is too late.

lol. In other words you have no argument t

Like I said it’s not me you need to worry about its God you need to ask why his death was not enough

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Christ's death is enough, but we will be severely responsible for teaching any false doctrines to others.

Let us stay sober minded and serious.

Then correct anyone who say his death is not enough and we have to add our works

Or else join them. And god forbid. Try to get to God with your works

 

[Doug Brents]

God comes to you he does not tell you to go get your gift. He hands it to you

Wrong. The land was given to Israel before they took possession of it (Deut 1:8). But they did not get the use of it, the rest in it, or the benefit of it until they took it through invasion and growth (Exo 23:30).

Under the law yes. Or he would have been rejected by the Jews. As still unclean

Naaman was never a Jew, nor was he ever under the Law.

lol. In other words you have no argument t

Like I said it’s not me you need to worry about its God you need to ask why his death was not enough

As Dizerner said, "Christ's death is enough". Don't know why you think it isn't. But to receive the benefit of His sacrifice, we must have faith in Him, and faith requires action.

 

[Dizerner]

As Dizerner said, "Christ's death is enough". Don't know why you think it isn't. But to receive the benefit of His sacrifice, we must have faith in Him, and faith requires action.

I would agree with this. We do not want to view faith as passivity.

We do not receive grace like we receive a bullet to the head.

We must still utilize our will.

 

[Dizerner]

Then correct anyone who say his death is not enough and we have to add our works

Or else join them. And god forbid. Try to get to God with your works

Passivity is not grace.

Requirements do not mean merit.

God still requires actions to receive the gift.

Free Grace and Calvinism and OSAS are a false representation of grace.

They masquerade as grace, but they are not grace.