Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Jim]

@Jim

Greetings old friend. At least I got you up and moving, still praying for your great loss of your son, not to mention your wife two years ago. Good to see you posting in all sincerity.

The death of my son has been and continues to be a great burden for me, even more so than the death of my wife. We always know that between the husband and wife, one will usually die first, and in our case the first to die was my wife. But we never expect that any of our children will die before we do. There are those who speak of "closure" for such things. I do not believe in closure. We will always carry such burdens, but with help from our Lord, Jesus Christ, we will get used to those burdens and learn to carry them and live with them.

You said:

"Verse 29 begins with the English word "for". That comes from the Greek word "hoti" meaning because or since. Amen Jim, and please do not forget that when you and I discuss Acts 2:38 again, where "for" is used in the sense "BECASUE OF".

The "for" in Acts 2:38 comes from the Greek word :eis", not the Greek word "hoti". "Eis" never means because. That is universially admitted by all Greek scholars. You know that but refuse to admit it because it would rebut completely your soteriology.

Romans 8:28
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

But as the verse states, it is those who love God that are called according to his purpose.

 

[Jim]

No such thing as the moral law.

Of course there is the moral law. That is, within the law there are commands that pertain to moral issues as well as commands that pertain to legal issues and those that pertain to ceremonial issues. It is almost universally those that pertain to moral issues that are carried forth into the NT commands, though not totally limited to the commands of morality.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, “to them that love God.” It’s plainly stated, and yet some don’t “see” it. They endlessly debate and accuse. It’s really a sad thing …selah.

Now "to them that love God" is obviously descriptive of believers/Christians. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. (in contrast with) 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

 

[civic]

No such thing as the moral law.
The Royal law refers to the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.
“Royal” denotes the unique Melchizedek Priesthood because he is both king and priest.
Jesus is our high priest as well as our king.

James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.

Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ / This is the first and greatest commandment. / And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

Galatians 5:14
The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13:8-10
Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love. For he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. / The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” / Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another. / By this everyone will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

1 John 4:21
And we have this commandment from Him: Whoever loves God must love his brother as well.

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us.


Moral Law
The moral laws, or mishpatim, relate to justice and judgment and are often translated as "ordinances." Mishpatim are said to be based on God’s holy nature. As such, the ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Their purpose is to promote the welfare of those who obey. The value of the laws is considered obvious by reason and common sense. The moral law encompasses regulations on justice, respect, and sexual conduct, and includes the Ten Commandments. It also includes penalties for failure to obey the ordinances. Moral law does not point people to Christ; it merely illuminates the fallen state of all mankind.

Modern Protestants are divided over the applicability of mishpatim in the church age. Some believe that Jesus’ assertion that the law will remain in effect until the earth passes away (Matthew 5:18) means that believers are still bound to it. Others, however, understand that Jesus fulfilled this requirement (Matthew 5:17), and that we are instead under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is thought to be "love God and love others" (Matthew 22:36-40). Although many of the moral laws in the Old Testament give excellent examples as to how to love God and love others, and freedom from the law is not license to sin (Romans 6:15), we are not specifically bound by mishpatim.

Ceremonial Law
The ceremonial laws are called hukkim or chuqqah in Hebrew, which literally means “custom of the nation”; the words are often translated as “statutes.” These laws seem to focus the adherent’s attention on God. They include instructions on regaining right standing with God (e.g., sacrifices and other ceremonies regarding “uncleanness”), remembrances of God’s work in Israel (e.g., feasts and festivals), specific regulations meant to distinguish Israelites from their pagan neighbors (e.g., dietary and clothing restrictions), and signs that point to the coming Messiah (e.g., the Sabbath, circumcision, Passover, and the redemption of the firstborn). Some Jews believe that the ceremonial law is not fixed. They hold that, as societies evolve, so do God’s expectations of how His followers should relate to Him. This view is not indicated in the Bible.

Christians are not bound by ceremonial law. Since the church is not the nation of Israel, memorial festivals, such as the Feast of Weeks and Passover, do not apply. Galatians 3:23-25 explains that since Jesus has come, Christians are not required to sacrifice or circumcise. There is still debate in Protestant churches over the applicability of the Sabbath. Some say that its inclusion in the Ten Commandments gives it the weight of moral law. Others quote Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5 to explain that Jesus has fulfilled the Sabbath and become our Sabbath rest. As Romans 14:5 says, "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." The applicability of the Old Testament law in the life of a Christian has always related to its usefulness in loving God and others. If someone feels observing the Sabbath aids him in this, he is free to observe it.

Judicial/Civil Law
The Westminster Confession adds the category of judicial or civil law. These laws were specifically given for the culture and place of the Israelites and encompass all of the moral law except the Ten Commandments. This includes everything from murder to restitution for a man gored by an ox and the responsibility of the man who dug a pit to rescue his neighbor’s trapped donkey (Exodus 21:12-36). Since the Jews saw no difference between their God-ordained morality and their cultural responsibilities, this category is used by Christians far more than by Jewish scholars.

The division of the Jewish law into different categories is a human construct designed to better understand the nature of God and define which laws church-age Christians are still required to follow. Many believe the ceremonial law is not applicable, but we are bound by the Ten Commandments. All the law is useful for instruction (2 Timothy 3:16), and nothing in the Bible indicates that God intended a distinction of categories. Christians are not under the law (Romans 10:4). Jesus fulfilled the law, thus abolishing the difference between Jew and Gentile "so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross…" (Ephesians 2:15-16).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Darby]

The moral law is a set of principles that govern human behavior based on notions of right and wrong; encompasses ethical guidelines and standards that are believed to be universal and enduring, transcending cultural and temporal boundaries; the moral aspects of the Mosaic law in distinction from the ceremonial and civil aspects of the Mosaic law.

Sin is any failure to conform to the moral law of God in act, attitude, or nature. God sets forth his moral law in many places throughout the Bible. One such place is the Ten Commandments, found in Exodus 20:1–17. If sin is any action contrary to God’s moral law, it makes sense that Exodus 20:13 says, “You shall not murder,” and Exodus 20:15 says, “You shall not steal.” But sin is also found in attitudes contrary to God’s moral law. This is why Exodus 20:17 says, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.” Sin is also found in our nature—the internal character that is the essence of who we are. This is why Paul says that those who reject Jesus are “by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:3).
God is eternally good in his character; all that he is conforms perfectly to his moral law. Therefore, anything contrary to his moral law is contrary to his character, that is, contrary to God himself. God hates sin because it directly contradicts everything he is.
Wayne A. Grudem,

 

[Selah]

Now "to them that love God" is obviously descriptive of believers/Christians. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. (in contrast with) 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Yes. Those are the sheep.

 

[Studyman]

Show me from the law of Moses where it says we can pick and choose which laws to keep.


It’s all of them or be cursed.


Therefore the entire law of Moses is still for today or it has been abolished.

Truly Jesus said it is still in effect "till all things be fulfilled". And clearly All things have not been fulfilled, because if Jesus' prophesied return doesn't happen, our faith is in vain, and it hasn't happened or we would know.

One point
I wish to make is that the Priesthood Law, "After the Order of Aaron", AKA "The Levitical Priesthood", was prophesied to change in the Law and Prophets. It was only Temporary from it's conception.

Duet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

God speaks to it again, in the promise of the New Covenant in Jer. 31.

So "not one jot or tittle" would include the end of the Levitical Priesthood, which would include animal sacrifice for sin, and duties of the Priesthood which are Spiritually fulfilled by the prophesied Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek".

The law of Moses was the dividing wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.

Well here is God's actual Law concerning Jews and non-Jews.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger (Non-Jew) sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you "shall be unto you" as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And here is what the Pharisees Law, AKA "The circumcision's" Law that you referenced says.

Eph. 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye (Faithful Gentiles like Cornelius) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who "are called Uncircumcision" (Gentiles/Pagans/strangers) by that "which is called" "the Circumcision" in the flesh made by hands; ( (Pharisees/Jews outwardly as Paul has already established)

And their Law says;

12 That at that time(Before Jesus Exposed them as children of the devil) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But clearly God's Laws taught no such thing.

Is. 56: 6 Also "the sons of the stranger", (Non-Jew/Gentile) that join themselves to the LORD, "to serve him", and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So please explain then, how Moses and the Prophets taught that Non-Jews "were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"?

Or how you reconcile the implication in your teaching that "God is the One" who created the Wall of Separation between Jews and Non-Jews, implicating God as a respecter of persons who judges men according to the DNA they were born with?

Or anyone reading along, I know this is a popular belief, taught to us from our youth from this world's religions. But how can you reconcile the popular teaching, with what is actually written?

Not it has been removed so that the intended “one new man” is established by the New Covenant.

But if you are wrong about who the author of the law of commandments contained in ordinances promoted by the Pharisees, which according to what is actually written, you most certainly are, then how can you tie this to God's New Covenant?

And consider what God's Law actually said;

But the stranger that dwelleth with you "shall be unto you as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

How is this not teaching that Jews, who turn to God, and Non-Jews, who turn to God, become "One New Man" "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness"?

I'm serious about these questions JLB, or anyone reading them. How can you reconcile popular religious traditions and philosophies that you are promoting on this forum, with what is actually written in scriptures about the very same topic?

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one,

Isn't the Spirit of Christ the ONE that had Leviticus 19 written in the fist place?

and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

Of GOD? Where do you find that GOD's Commandments created the "Middle Wall of Separation"? When is GOD's Word the Enemy? Please show me anywhere, in God's Commandments, where Strangers/Gentiles/Non-Jews who turned to Him, were doomed as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

You have been listening to the wrong voice in the garden God placed you in my friend, as i did to "in times past". Do the study for yourself, and then show me how I have misunderstood, because I am only interested in God's Truth.

 

[Studyman]

Of course there is the moral law. That is, within the law there are commands that pertain to moral issues as well as commands that pertain to legal issues and those that pertain to ceremonial issues. It is almost universally those that pertain to moral issues that are carried forth into the NT commands, though not totally limited to the commands of morality.

I agree.

I believe this is because the mainstream religions of that time, the Pharisees, that were in charge of the Temple, had "omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith". These would be the Laws that addressed forgiveness, how to treat others, God's judgments concerning what is Holy and just, and would also lay out God's Righteousness, which tend to be more along the moral aspects of God's people. As Jesus said, "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone".

Great perspective Jim.

 

[JLB]

That is, within the law there are commands that pertain to moral issues as well as commands that pertain to legal issues and those that pertain to ceremonial issues.

The law of Moses is one law. No where do we find that it was to be separated into divisions.

The law of Moses was abolished on the cross.

The New Covenant, the law of Christ, the Spirit of God resides in our heart, and empowers us to walk in righteousness and to keep the commandments written on our heart, just exactly the way Abraham did 430 years before the law of Moses was added.


because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5


Abraham walked with the LORD in His Presence and obeyed Him.


The law of Moses was added 430 years later to act as a fence around the Covenant the LORD (Jesus) made with Abraham.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19


By saying until the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.


The Law of Moses came from the Abrahamic Covenant, that Abraham walked out by faith.

By faith means it was received directly from the Lord.


The law of Moses was not of faith.

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

Show me from the law of Moses where it says we can pick and choose which laws to keep.

You quoted a perfect scripture from the NT proving my point.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16

Notice carefully what Paul said: "has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances"......All of the commandments of the Jewish ordinances, many of which separated them from the Gentiles nations, have been forever abolished. Since the Gentiles are now partakers with the Jews in the New covenant of grace, and together they form one spiritual temple for an habitation of the Spirit of God. The enmity between the Jews and Gentiles as taught in their ordinances are done away with, which all of their dietary laws are abolished.

The OT laws can be broken down into Moral laws..... many law contained in ordinances.... with some civil; the moral laws are eternal, All of the Jewish ordinances are abolished per Paul right here in the verse YOU provided. That has to do with our love/worship/faith toward God and love toward our neighbor, these are eternal.

JLB, I fully understand your concerned, and addressing such subjects, they are not easy to discern and separate even for season believers. It would be good to just have a separate thread dealing with this one subject for younger Christians to learn from.

I may start one, or maybe one is already started. May the Lord give understanding to all of us to rightly divide his word, and not be the means of causing young babes in Christ to go into error.

His commandments are now written on our heart and mind.

In the sense every child of God is created in the image of Jesus Christ in their new man within them. The life we now live in the flesh, we live by the faith OF Jesus Christ, delighting in the Law of God, after the new man. This does not mean that the moral law of God contained and summed up in the Ten Commandment is to be destroyed, that's impossible. The apostles many times even quoted THAT law, what other law is there more spiritual, holy and good? There is none. It is the law Christ lived by perfectly in order to secured our salvation, as our surety. We are indeed dead to the law of God legally in order to seek justification from it, but not as a rule to live by.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

"ye are not under the law"~ such are not only delivered from the law in truth, but in our own apprehensions; we have the comfortable knowledge and experience of it; to us, the law is no terrifying law for believers in Jesus Christ; it works no wrath in us; we are delivered from the spirit of bondage to fear, by the Spirit of God, by whom we are led; nor are we under it, nor do we need it as a pressing forcing law to duty; we delight in it, and cheerfully serve it, being constrained by love, and not awed by fear; nor are its accusations and charges regarded, or to be regarded, by such who are led by the Spirit to Christ, the end of the law for righteousness; and JLB, we are entirely freed from its curse and condemnation, though we are under it, and desire to be under it, as held forth by Christ the King of saints; and, under the Spirit's influence and guidance, yield a cheerful and evangelical obedience to it ~ for this law is ever in our hearts, or written therein in our new man.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Studyman

A yes or no, would have been proper to answer @ProDeo.

Of which you are part of one of them, and have done the same. There the big difference between you beliefs system and the word of God's testimony. Let me explain by using such scriptures as this one:

Galatians 4:9​

“But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”

Studyman, I never have shop through the smorgasbord of religious sects (as you called it) and then to come to know God, and none of his children have done so. I never have on my own so called free will come to know God, by seeking after him, BEFORE he first sought me, because from eternity past I, like all of the very elect, were known by God with an everlasting love, per Romans. We love him, why? Because he first love us. 1st John 4:19, or, we would have never love him.

Romans 8:29​

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

The personal pronoun whom indicates and reminds us of personal election as sons of God.

Whom is a personal pronoun.
Correct.

God predestined something.
WHAT did God predestine?

Here's the verse:
Romans 8:29 your version
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”


God foreknew someone would be saved....
What did God predestine??

God’s purpose begins in foreknowledge, which is beyond omniscience; it is love beforehand! The Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, not what He foreknew. This is far beyond bare omniscience, for His bare omniscience has foreknown all men. This is far beyond bare omniscience, for His will is supreme in salvation (9:15-16; etc.). This is far beyond bare omniscience, as He will declare He never knew many (Matthew 7:23) as he did foreknow his elect

What God foreknew about us by bare omniscience, for He did inspect and examine our race, was universal sinful rebellion, without a single exception (Psalm 14:1-3; 53:1-3). To know in the Bible has another sense different from bare knowledge, one of special affection, approval, benevolence, and design (Genesis 4:1; Psalms 1:6; Jeremiah 1:5; Amos 3:2).

He shall deny He ever knew the wicked – He never loved them (Matthew 7:23; Psalms 5:5; 11:5). He loved His elect from everlasting, and He always shall (Jeremiah 31:3; Ephesians 1:4; 5:25). God’s choice and love of the elect also predestinated them to adoption (see Ephesians 1:3-6).

Well, Studyman, that's what folks do they search the scriptures, seeking to follow the word of God only ~ so what happens when folks disagree WITH YOU, while they are truly seeking the word of God, are they following this world's religion, because they strongly disagree with you? Without question, someone needs to be converted from their errors, but who? That's why we are here and why you are here, not so much that either are seeking to following this world's mad religious system under the power of the spirit of antichrist, which system has many different fowls of air lodging in their branches, per Christ.

I would not accuse some of not taking God serious, but for sure many are living under a very strong delusion.

 

[Selah]

God foreknew someone would be saved....
What did God predestine??

Who.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

OSAS is a free meal ticket where one professes belief and lives like the devil. It’s having one’s cake and eating it too. It has nothing to do with the P in tulip.

To the trenches civic for there are many doctrines now that ought never been allowed entrance into the church .
But as JESUS once told His own
He who endures to the end the same shall be saved
Let us endure by the power of THE LORD , faithful to the KING to the last and final breath .
Prolonged dentention will become the law of the land
as the mark becometh the law of the hand . Prolonged dentention is real .
And its claim that a potential terroist can be held without trial
till a comittee determines if one is safe and able to be released
WONT bode well for the true saints .
Because folks i invite us to look at who is considered to already be a potential terrorist .
That means if something breaks out and they enforce this
THEM NAMES can be arrested without trial and detained till they are determined not to be a threat to society .
So you can surely bet SOME REDUCATION classes going be going on .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

What I said is that Rom 2:13-15 was directed to the Nations (Gentiles). You may bark against Rom 2:13-15 all you want. I'll stick with Paul, if you don't mind.

Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,

you might wanna pay attention to verse fifteen . THEN realize this was and had to be talking
about BELEIVING IN JESUS gentiles .
because the new covenant IS WHERE GOD WRITES his laws upon our hearts
It aint just any budda following , atheist or etc .
IT was THE BELIEVERS IN JESUS . many mess that up . BUT read verse fifteen .
THEN know and learn what the NEW covenant was all about .

 

[synergy]

you might wanna pay attention to verse fifteen . THEN realize this was and had to be talking
about BELEIVING IN JESUS gentiles .
because the new covenant IS WHERE GOD WRITES his laws upon our hearts
It aint just any budda following , atheist or etc .
IT was THE BELIEVERS IN JESUS . many mess that up . BUT read verse fifteen .
THEN know and learn what the NEW covenant was all about .

The Nations "do by nature the things of the Law". Not by the Spirit but by nature. That proves that the common man has the natural ability to attain some knowledge of God. The best knowledge is that of the message of the Gospel but even knowledge of the Law still has its value. So it's not necessarily buddhas but the common good-intentioned persons are the ones being talked about in these verses.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Nations "do by nature the things of the Law". Not by the Spirit but by nature. That proves that the common man has the natural ability to attain some knowledge of God. The best knowledge is that of the message of the Gospel but even knowledge of the Law still has its value. So it's not necessarily buddhas but the common good-intentioned persons are the ones being talked about in these verses.

For THE NATIONS,,,,I have THE PAGANS.
Meaning not the jews...the nations outside of Israel.
Do you agree?

 

[GodsGrace]

The death of my son has been and continues to be a great burden for me, even more so than the death of my wife. We always know that between the husband and wife, one will usually die first, and in our case the first to die was my wife. But we never expect that any of our children will die before we do. There are those who speak of "closure" for such things. I do not believe in closure. We will always carry such burdens, but with help from our Lord, Jesus Christ, we will get used to those burdens and learn to carry them and live with them.

Yes Sir.
I agree with every word you've said.
And yes...
We will trust in God,,,Who is our strength.

The "for" in Acts 2:38 comes from the Greek word :eis", not the Greek word "hoti". "Eis" never means because. That is universially admitted by all Greek scholars. You know that but refuse to admit it because it would rebut completely your soteriology.

But as the verse states, it is those who love God that are called according to his purpose.

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

Whom is a personal pronoun.
Correct.

Yes, I said:

Romans 8:29​

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

The personal pronoun whom indicates and reminds us of personal election as sons of God.

God’s purpose begins in foreknowledge, which is beyond omniscience; it is love beforehand! The Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, not what He foreknew. This is far beyond bare omniscience, for His bare omniscience has foreknown all men. This is far beyond bare omniscience, for His will is supreme in salvation (9:15-16; etc.). This is far beyond bare omniscience, as He will declare He never knew many (Matthew 7:23) as he did foreknow his elect

What God foreknew about us by bare omniscience, for He did inspect and examine our race, was universal sinful rebellion, without a single exception (Psalm 14:1-3; 53:1-3). To know in the Bible has another sense different from bare knowledge, one of special affection, approval, benevolence, and design (Genesis 4:1; Psalms 1:6; Jeremiah 1:5; Amos 3:2).

He shall deny He ever knew the wicked – He never loved them (Matthew 7:23; Psalms 5:5; 11:5). He loved His elect from everlasting, and He always shall (Jeremiah 31:3; Ephesians 1:4; 5:25). God’s choice and love of the elect also predestinated them to adoption (see Ephesians 1:3-6).

God predestined something.
WHAT did God predestine?

I've already answered this:

To know in the Bible has another sense different from bare knowledge, one of special affection, approval, benevolence, and design (Genesis 4:1; Psalms 1:6; Jeremiah 1:5; Amos 3:2).

Those whom he will to love.

God foreknew someone would be saved....
What did God predestine??

You are not using the word foreknew in the sense in which it can only be understood in Romans and in light of so many other scriptures.. You obviously did not read my post carefully enough.

It is not that he foreknew some WOULD be ~ the golden chain of Romans 8:28-30 is one chain and cannot be broken, by the fact any are saved from sin and condemnation is according to God's eternal purposes of securing the salvation of some, or none would have ever been saved on their own strength and power.

Romans 8:28​

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

The evidence of being called is our love to God, and his people. Not all all are called. See 1st Corinthians 1:26-31.

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

Yes Sir.
I agree with every word you've said.
And yes...
We will trust in God,,,Who is our strength.

Amen Fran.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Yes, I said:



I've already answered this:

Those whom he will to love.

You are not using the word foreknew in the sense in which it can only be understood in Romans and in light of so many other scriptures.. You obviously did not read my post carefully enough.

It is not that he foreknew some WOULD be ~ the golden chain of Romans 8:28-30 is one chain and cannot be broken, by the fact any are saved from sin and condemnation is according to God's eternal purposes of securing the salvation of some, or none would have ever been saved on their own strength and power.

Romans 8:28​

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

The evidence of being called is our love to God, and his people. Not all all are called. See 1st Corinthians 1:26-31.

No RB.
Listen carefully to me....
I'm interested in this verse which YOU posted and I have a question for you about it.

Here's your verse copied and pasted from your post:

Romans 8:29​

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”


Now...forget about what foreknow means.

This is my question for you:

WHAT did God pedestine?