Even in John 1, Jesus is not God

[GeneZ]

Some here are proclaiming themselves to be losers.

​

“For many are called, but few are chosen.”​

That had me mystified for years.

Here is more context....

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, ​

and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.​

For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:13-14​

First...

Hell is never called "outer darkness." Hell/Lake of Fire is located in the inner earth.

Not all who are chosen (saved) will serve with the Lord during the Millennium.
Only those who matured in Christ will sit with Him on a throne!

To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, ​

just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Rev 3:21​

Only those who "overcome" will be chosen to reign with Him!

Only a few will qualify. Many are saved/called, but only few will be chosen to reign with the Lord!

Those who are not chosen? They are saved/ called!

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, ​

he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." Romans 8:30​

The "called" are those who were saved by grace!

All the called will receive a resurrection body. Therefore, will be glorified!

But!!!! They called will be denied to reign with Christ! They will not reign with Him because they were not CHOSEN...
Not chosen, because they refused while being alive on earth to qualify. Disqualified by denying taking up their cross and denying them self when the Word of God demanded them to when showing correction to them.


Outer darkness?

That is what we simply call "outer space" that is above our earth.

Those believers who refuse to obey the Lord's corrections when they were given? ... Those who continued blindly (and stubbornly)
to promote erroneous dogma? Ideas that pleased their flesh? They will not be allowed to serve on earth during the Millennium.

Those ones will be placed on the outside above the earth to be looking in in from outer darkness surrounding the earth.
They will be agonized in deep emotional pain. "Weeping and gnashing of teeth." Punishment will be for for their willful
rejection of sound doctrinal teaching. A They will find themselves agonizing (weeping and gnashing of teeth) because at
that point they will have a undeniable realization of having hurt the Lord by their arrogant denying His Word.

And, for the not chosen saved? .. Being resurrected? That will leave them wanting only to please the Lord with all their heart.
Resulting in weeping and agonizing over what they failed to do while they were given the time to overcome in grace...
For they will now crave to serve and please the Lord, but be denied.

Those who now deny the Lord's Word, they shall be denied rewards that God so wanted to give. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

Outer darkness is not for the damned. Its for the disobedient believers.

For it says that the damned are to be sent to an inner darkness somewhere inside and below the earth.

grace and peace ...............

 

[Wrangler]

Christ is a being and his nature is Deity...

The Bible states repeatedly that Christ is a man.

 

[Wrangler]

the overall, overwhelming, repeated description of Jesus is that He is God, that He is the Creator, and that He is 100% equal to the Father who is also the same God with Jesus.

Totally untrue. Jesus himself says that God is GREATER than he is and that his God is the only true God. Who are you to contradict the lord?

 

[civic]

Correct. It says the word was God. It does not say that Jesus is God. How could you possibly have missed that?

He is the Word and called so in several places in Scripture

 

[Rowan]

I've been saved over 40 years And in that 40 years I've never once considered that Jesus is not God so it kind of comes as a shock to me. I don't know the defense that you would use to uphold either side of the debate but one thing comes to mind.

Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen the father. It seems like that would mean that Jesus and the father are one. Now I know That if you believe they are separate then there has to be a workaround to John 14:8-9

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

 

[e v e]

The Bible states repeatedly that Christ is a man.

yes He is. I never said he is not.

A man in context of the original situation is not the current fallen situation of flesh - which is the body not made by God.

 

[Wrangler]

He is the Word and called so in several places in Scripture

He is not called the word one time! Rev 19:13 stated a title “Word of God.” You cannot just substitute any part of the title to claim a common word like “word” refers to a person who has a similar title.

What’s so ridiculous is this is how desperate and extreme your Eisegesis is; ignoring the explicit word of Scripture that Jesus is a man who died and is the son of God - not God the son.

Revelation 19:13

Contemporary English Version

​

13 The rider wore a robe that was covered with[a] blood, and he was known as “The Word of God.”

 

[GeneZ]

The Bible states repeatedly that Christ is a man.

"And as a man," as well.

Tunnel vision is a bad thing to have. And, you have it bad.


Tunnel vision metaphorically denotes a collection of common heuristics and logical fallacies that lead individuals
to focus on cues that are consistent with their opinion and filter out cues that are inconsistent with their
viewpoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_vision_(metaphor)

This book was required reading when I was in college. You need to read it to better understand why you do what you do...

https://www.amazon.com/Man-Manipulator-Journey-Manipulation-Actualization/dp/B000I5S7R0

Read the reviews!

 

[civic]

He is not called the word one time! Rev 19:13 stated a title “Word of God.” You cannot just substitute any part of the title to claim a common word like “word” refers to a person who has a similar title.

What’s so ridiculous is this is how desperate and extreme your Eisegesis is; ignoring the explicit word of Scripture that Jesus is a man who died and is the son of God - not God the son.

Revelation 19:13

​

Contemporary English Version​

​

​

13 The rider wore a robe that was covered with[a] blood, and he was known as “The Word of God.”

He is the word one several times like John 1:14, 1:1 and in Rev 19:13 He is called the “Word of God.”

What’s so ridiculous is this is how desperate and extreme your Eisegesis is; ignoring the explicit word of Scripture that Jesus is called the Word of God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

"And as a man," as well

This is normal language usage.

As a man in 21st America, the appalling lack of education becomes more obvious with each passing day. In no way does the expression ‘as a man’ imply one is something other than a man.

 

[GeneZ]

This is normal language usage.

As a man in 21st America, the appalling lack of education becomes more obvious with each passing day. In no way does the expression ‘as a man’ imply one is something other than a man.

So? Now you are a "time traveler?"
Or, are you Mel Brooks the 2000 year old man?

I know you think you are a genius.
(It does not take a genius to see that.)

 

[101G]

Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen the father. It seems like that would mean that Jesus and the father are one. Now I know That if you believe they are separate then there has to be a workaround to John 14:8-9

Greeting,
the Father and the Son are not separate, nor Divided, but in an ECHAD as the bible States. and that ECHAD is a EQUALLY "SHARED" Nature, per Phil. 2:6

good spot.

101G.

 

[101G]

to all my Trinitarians, please understand the OT Hebrew term, ""ONE", which is the Strong #259 ECHAD. and the Greek equivalent in the NT, "ANOTHER", which is G243 Allos. there one will find the plurality of God in a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE. and that difference is expressed in Ordinal Designations of First/Father/LORD, and Last/Son/Lord.

this is the answer to the Godhead.

101G.

 

[GeneZ]

Greeting,
the Father and the Son are not separate, nor Divided, but in an ECHAD as the bible States. and that ECHAD is a EQUALLY "SHARED" Nature, per Phil. 2:6

good spot.

101G.

Echad can also mean to be one, as in being unique. As in, there is only one God who is a trinity in His manifestation.

Echad (unique) was used to contrast and differentiate the God of Israel from the common pagan polytheistic beliefs.

A "kind of" example might be seen with the mild mannered reporter, Clark Kent, and Superman, as being one.

 

[Wrangler]

It does not have 40 authors, but a single author.

Willful ignorance! You are denying the work of the prophets and the very words of Scripture!

When people say mystical crap like this, it is such a turn off and dishonor to those who followed YHWH's words despite knowing it would mean they'd be hated in their life time. You ought to be ashamed.


I am Isaiah, the son of Amoz.

And this is the message[a] that I was given about Judah and Jerusalem when Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah were the kings of Judah
Isaiah 1:1 (CEV)

My name is Jeremiah. I am a priest, and my father Hilkiah and everyone else in my family are from Anathoth in the territory of the Benjamin tribe. This book contains the things that the LORD told me to say.
Jeremiah 1:1

I am Ezekiel—a priest and the son of Buzi.
Ezekiel1 1-3
.
.
.
1The burden of the word of Yahweh to Israel by Malachi.
Malachi 1:1

 

[Doug Brents]

Totally untrue. Jesus himself says that God is GREATER than he is and that his God is the only true God. Who are you to contradict the lord?

Yes, while Jesus was on Earth, He was lesser in power and glory, but He was still God, still could have reclaimed His power and glory at any time. He, while He was a man, worshiped the Father, but He also claimed equality with the Father. An example: a man has a child who joins him as head of a family business. Both are 50/50 owners. But the son refers to his father as greater in the business still. Jesus similarly is subservient to the Father, and looks to Him for direction, but He is still fully God and equal with the Father in Authority, and Power, and Majesty.

 

[Doug Brents]

Willful ignorance! You are denying the work of the prophets and the very words of Scripture!

When people say mystical crap like this, it is such a turn off and dishonor to those who followed YHWH's words despite knowing it would mean they'd be hated in their life time. You ought to be ashamed.


I am Isaiah, the son of Amoz.

And this is the message[a] that I was given about Judah and Jerusalem when Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah were the kings of Judah
Isaiah 1:1 (CEV)

My name is Jeremiah. I am a priest, and my father Hilkiah and everyone else in my family are from Anathoth in the territory of the Benjamin tribe. This book contains the things that the LORD told me to say.
Jeremiah 1:1

I am Ezekiel—a priest and the son of Buzi.
Ezekiel1 1-3
.
.
.
1The burden of the word of Yahweh to Israel by Malachi.
Malachi 1:1

2 Tim 3:16-17 - "All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work."
This means that even though the Prophets and Apostles were the ones putting pen to paper, they were not the source of the words that resulted. God put the words in their mouths, hands, pens, etc. So it is God that is the author of all Scripture. Not a single word of Scripture is man initiated. So get off your high horse and quit condemning people for saying things you just don't understand yet.

 

[civic]

This is normal language usage.

As a man in 21st America, the appalling lack of education becomes more obvious with each passing day. In no way does the expression ‘as a man’ imply one is something other than a man.

Then read and understand the normal language in the Bible that declares Jesus the man is God. Even in all these passages besides John 1:1 Jesus is still called God. The OP is just another biased failure.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Acts 20:28
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Rom 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Heb 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the GNT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.


Rev 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty


Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:


We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Rev 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Rev 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.


So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the GNT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, while Jesus was on Earth,

You’re pernicious in disregarding our lords words. He did not add such a qualifier.

Yet, Revelations tells us that even in heaven, Jesus is not God and less than God. We know this because verse 1 informs us God gave Jesus the revelation.

 

[civic]

You’re pernicious in disregarding our lords words. He did not add such a qualifier.

Yet, Revelations tells us that even in heaven, Jesus is not God and less than God. We know this because verse 1 informs us God gave Jesus the revelation.

Wrong He is the Alpla and Omega in Revelation. He is the First and the Last in Revelation, He is the Beginning and the End in Revelation, He is the Lord God Almighty in Revelation.

Sound Biblical Exegesis below rather than your eisegesis of Revelation.

Rev 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

The Lord in the N.T. is the Son- He is the One Lord, the Only Lord. 1 Cor 8:6, Romans 10:9-13, Jude 1:4


We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty


Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:


We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Rev 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Rev 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the GNT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

hope this helps !!!