Even in John 1, Jesus is not God

[101G]

What @tigger2 is talking about is the thoughts of YHWH having authority -not that these thoughts give rise to a person, Jesus. To argue that the attributes of a Being (thoughts, logos) is that Being is absurd on its face.

this is where the wisdom of God comes in at with understanding. what you said is NONESENSE. John 1:1 is not speaking of any thought(s), but the actual nature of God himself, (shared), in Flesh, WITH POWER. God gives us a clear example of this in the bible. Listen and learn. in Hermetics there is a section called near and far. what happen before happens again. this is for our learning.

in 2 Chronicles 32 we have the answer to John 1:1. when Sennacherib the king of Assyria came, and entered into Judah, and encamped around the city of Jerusalem. king Hezekiah took counsel with his princes and his mighty men to stop the waters of the fountains which were without the city, and he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake to them. NOW LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID. 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:" 2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah."

an "ARM of FLESH", which was his "POWER" ...... his Fighting men, his ARMY. well God has an ARMY of "ONE"..... his "OWN ARM, which came in Flesh. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

God's OWN ARM... in Flesh, an "ARM of FLESH", yes Christ brought SALVATION unto him.... God, for his word is sent forth and returns not Void. it accomplish it Goal.

Christ, "God's OWN ARM" is his ARM of Flesh. as with the king of Assyria, his, "POWER", was in his ARMY/Fighting men... an "ARM of Flesh" as identified. Christ, John 1:1 is the ARM of God in Flesh.

and by knowing that, we now know why the Lord Jesus said, "I do nothing of myself". and also, "not my Will, but your will". all of this is understood by knowing ....... what an "ARM of FLESH" is. My God the bible is so REVEALING.


as the Holy Spirit said via his apostle Paul, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

read what was written afore and learn and have HOPE.... and UNDERSTANDING in God holy Word.

101G.

 

[101G]

Over and above explanation, and the use of theos, with or without the definite article and associated adjectives.

is not the definite article is used of the Son in Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

101G.

 

[e v e]

so, what Moses wrote is corrupt?

Eden destroyed? post book chapter and verse to that effect. but was not, the way kept?

son and daughters left? was that not God command and plan? Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

101G

the land meant is not the current earth

 

[Wrangler]

this is where the wisdom of God comes in at with understanding. what you said is NONESENSE.

No, that'd be trinitarianism contradicting itself. Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God? And on what basis do trinitarians substitution "word" with "Jesus" in John 1:1? There is no rational basis; it's just another trinitarian invention.

 

[synergy]

No, that'd be trinitarianism contradicting itself. Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God?

Your attempt to answer that is wrought with errors and heresies. How can you possibly say that a thought was God? Are you into worshipping a God or Goddess of Thoughts? If so, do tell us about your God or Goddess of Thoughts.

You know, some of the French Revolutionaries dedicated themselves to the worship of the Goddess of Reason. Sounds close to what you're promoting.

 

[Wrangler]

Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God? And on what basis do trinitarians substitution "word" with "Jesus" in John 1:1?

Your attempt to answer that is wrought with errors and heresies.

You cannot answer a question with a question or with personal attacks.

I know it is a fearful thing to be confronted with the error of your deeply held orthodox brainwashing of John 1. Yet, the simple question reveals your false doctrine.

 

[Behold]

You cannot answer a question with a question or with personal attacks.

I know it is a fearful thing to be confronted with the error of your deeply held orthodox brainwashing of John 1

John 1 teaches that the pre-incarnate Jesus "was God".

And after He came down here, (virgin born).... He is "the word became flesh",....... and who is the Word?

= God manifested in the Flesh

 

[Behold]

Now you are moving the goal post. Jesus is not God

Jesus is not God the Father... He is God the Son.

Or as Thomas said to Jesus...>"my Lord and my God".

And as 1 Timothy states..."God was manifested in the Flesh".

Or as Jesus said.."if you've seen ME... You've seen The Father".

 

[Complete]

'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2 John 1:7-11)

 

[synergy]

You cannot answer a question with a question or with personal attacks.

I know it is a fearful thing to be confronted with the error of your deeply held orthodox brainwashing of John 1. Yet, the simple question reveals your false doctrine.

It's your question and you can't answer it without exposing unitarian heresies. How can you possibly say that a thought was God? Are you into worshipping a God or Goddess of Thoughts? If so, do tell us about your God or Goddess of Thoughts.

I, on the other hand, am able to clearly answer that the Word of God is with God and is God. If you have trouble understanding who the Word of God is then read Rev 19. That will set you straight.

 

[Wrangler]

How can you possibly say that a thought was God?

LOL. I’ve explained this about a dozen times already.

What in the world do you think words are other than expressed thoughts?

Again, you are locked into an overly narrow use by capitalizing words. The will of YHWH has authority = his thoughts are a god.

 

[Wrangler]

I, on the other hand, am able to clearly answer that the Word of God is with God and is God.

LOL. Then you are self-deceived since you provided NO ANSWER how can anything (word) be with God and be God?

 

[synergy]

LOL. I’ve explained this about a dozen times already.

What in the world do you think words are other than expressed thoughts?

Again, you are locked into an overly narrow use by capitalizing words. The will of YHWH has authority = his thoughts are a god.

You just shattered your monotheistic beliefs with this thought god of yours or you are a Binitarian. Which is it? Tell us about your thought god and how you worship it.

The French Revolutionists had a Goddess of Reason that they worshiped. That is strikingly similar to what you're promoting.

 

[synergy]

LOL. Then you are self-deceived since you provided NO ANSWER how can anything (word) be with God and be God?

Actually, I did. Here it is for which you offered no counterargument:

I, on the other hand, am able to clearly answer that the Word of God is with God and is God. If you have trouble understanding who the Word of God is then read Rev 19. That will set you straight.

 

[101G]

To all,

No, that'd be trinitarianism contradicting itself. Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God? And on what basis do trinitarians substitution "word" with "Jesus" in John 1:1? There is no rational basis; it's just another trinitarian invention.

GINOLJC, to all,
again, 101G is not trinitarian.

Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God?

A. The "Word", NOT a Word, but The WORD is synonyms with God "OWN" attributes. Scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." both the POWER, and the WISDOM of God is personified in God's attributes, meaning, he God himself. listen and learn, the WISDOM of God. Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
"LIGHT" here is the personification of God Wisdom in creating and making all things. for the term "Light" here in Genesis 1:3 is not the same as the Light that the sun produce on day four. note the difference.
Light, Genesis day 3, H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.
Root(s): H215

Now Light on Genesis Day four, H215 אוֹר 'owr (ore) v.
1. to be luminous.
2. (causative) to make luminous.
{literally and metaphorically}
[a primitive root]
KJV: X break of day, glorious, kindle, (be, en-, give, show) light (-en, -ened), set on fire, shine.

see the difference between the two. notice both definitions #1. illumination. 1. to be luminous. one is for physically seeing with the Natural eye. the other is to see/UNDERSTAND with the MIND, KNOWLEDGE. but the revelation is in the first definition #2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.). YES, Happiness. and understand this, what is another word for Happiness? that's right "delight", and "Rejoicing". lets see both words in SCRIPTURE, as "WISDOM".

Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world." Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:" Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:" Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:" Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

BINGO, there it is "WISDOM", the LIGHT in Genesis 1:3, the Wisdom of God who is Christ, per 1 Corinthians 1:24, WISDOM personified in Flesh, John 1:1. which bring us to your next question.

B. you asked, "how can a word be WITH God and BE God?" again, the Word, and not a Word. answer, in Ordinal Designations of the ECHAD as "FIRST" and "LAST" in Time, Place, Order, and Rank, just as the term "Beginning" in Genesis 1:1 clearly states. and now revealed in SCRPTURE, listen. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." see it? the First is "WITH" the Last. Just as the Word was "WITH" God in John 1:1b. now the answer to both scriptures. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, the LORD who is the First is Also, Also, Also, the Last, meaning the same one person as in John 1:1c "and the Word was God. the term "Also" means, "in addition; too". and this addition too the "FIRST" ls the "LAST". it is the same "ONE" person in the ECHAD EQUALLY "SHARED" as the Ordinal "FIRST"/Father/LORD, the CREATOR and MAKER of ALL THINGS Genesis 1:1. and the same one Person in the ECHAD, to come, in Time, Place, Order, and Rank, is the Ordinal "LAST"/Son/Lord, the REDEEMER and SAVIOUR of ALL THE THINGS, that he Made and Created in Genesis 1:1, is now come, Manifested in Flesh, per John 1:1. this is just too easy not to understand.

Wrangler, 101G took his time in explaining how, just as you asked. now READ with the Wisdom of God in UNDERSTANDING what 101G has written in this POST. if you have any question, just ask.

101G

 

[Doug Brents]

In other words, no verse states what you claim.

Your statement shows that you did not read the whole post.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
John 1:1 is clearly correct. it is our own way, (that we have been taught), that distort our understanding. the Idea of the term "WITH" when applied to the Godhead is not the way of our traditional thinking of ... "with". the definition of WITH states, "accompanied by (another person or thing)". this is clearly seen in Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." this is a clear reference to the Lord Jesus the Christ, per Matthews 26:31.

FELLOW: H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

Notice God said, "My Fellow". my shows or indicate, "Possession", or "Ownership." my Car, or my house, or..... my feet, or... my head...... or "MY ARM". and the term "Fellow" itself states, companionship also. but this companion is clearly identified in the second definition, 2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man. so the question begs to be answered "How is this man is God's companion that he "OWNS". and own means, "have (something) as one's own; possess". scripture #1. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." Scripture #2. , Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."

when one read proverb 8 concerning "WISDOM" and especially here in verses 22 & 23, one has the Idea of two person present. wrong, only one person. because if this Man in Zechariah 13:7 ... which the definition states is concrete how can a flesh and bone man with blood be EVERLASTING? remember in Micah 5:2 the Christ to come is "EVERLASTING". "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." so, he who is to come is from EVERLASTING. and this was fulfilled in the Birth of Christ. Matthew 2:3 "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him." Matthew 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born." Matthew 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet," Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel." A DIRECT QUOTE FROM Micah 5:2. so Christ this Man in Zechariah 13:7 is "EVERLASTING". and this Man is God's "Companion. well was not Wisdom God's Companion in creation? let the bible speak,

Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world." Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:" Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:" Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:" Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

Wisdom here is an ATTRIBUITE of God, correct, so is Wisdom Speaking or is it God himself speaking? that's right it's God himself speaking. so, the Man in Zechariah 13:7 is God speaking, not someone else. but now another question begs to be answered, "How is God speaking, for God is ABSTRACT, and this Man is CONCRETE"....... next time...... (smile).

101G.

 

[Wrangler]

Your statement shows that you did not read the whole post.

Trinitarians like to pretend mystical dualism and artificial synthesis = one verse that explicitly states their doctrine. I reject this.

 

[e v e]

No, that'd be trinitarianism contradicting itself. Tell me, how can a word be WITH God and BE God? And on what basis do trinitarians substitution "word" with "Jesus" in John 1:1? There is no rational basis; it's just another trinitarian invention.

Christ is a being and his nature is Deity...

God's Feminine Spirit and Christ are the Hands of God Our Majesty.
We are Actual sons and daughters of Him and will be restored to Him very soon...
and restored His type of nature, what He gave us in Paradise,
and not the type of decaying nature of this world, which is flesh and matter.

The problem is that in rightly saying Christ is the Son, some then say he was merely
a human in an ape body, like what we are in the situation of now..

and that is not the case. Christ is Deity...

imagine what a step down He made to go into this fleshbody for us!!!
To make Possible for us to escape this flesh.

And that we will do any day now when He brings us home.

 

[Doug Brents]

Trinitarians like to pretend mystical dualism and artificial synthesis = one verse that explicitly states their doctrine. I reject this.

I did not say that there was one verse that explicitly states anything (although there are many things that a single verse does state clearly).

All of Scripture is one "love letter" from a single author (God) to His bride. It does not have 40 authors, but a single author. As a single, complete document, all of it has the same weight and importance: all of it is equally inspired. That being said, the best source of commentary on it, is from itself. And the overall, overwhelming, repeated description of Jesus is that He is God, that He is the Creator, and that He is 100% equal to the Father who is also the same God with Jesus.

You don't have to accept that fact. But then, you also don't have to be saved. You can remain in disbelief and condemnation, and not accept Jesus as Savior, Redeemer, and Lord God.