Even in John 1, Jesus is not God

Everything is expressed in context. The context does not change the fact; there is one God, the Father. This is true in every context referring to the Creator, referring to Jesus' God.



Yup. Notice two people do not a trinity make?


Yes, there are two authorities in the context but in reality there are many authorities that I have demonstrated numerous times. While every town has a mayor, every State has a governor but our nation has 1 POTUS at a time. So, not only are there 2 differing authorities, they are not at the same level of authority.

The relationship between our Lord and his God is akin to agent and principle. Consider the following verses:

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
John 6:38

I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it.
John 12:39 (NLT)


There is a difference in authority between the sender and who was sent. Jesus tells us this explicitly.


Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him
John 13:16


There is no verse that indicates Jesus commanding God, commanding the Father. I know you will not accept any proof text but there it is. There is one true God, YHWH, who we relate to as father. Jesus is OF God, a servant of God, but this does not make him God. Simple.
You are missing the point; both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are bound together as the definition the Christian God as opposed to the idols of the pagans. Both are needed for Paul to define the Christian concept, not just the Father. If the Father is the only person who is God, there is no need to mention Jesus.

Doug
 
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1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")
As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God "manifest in the flesh."
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with "God" as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: "he" (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [`70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck's translation), "he who" (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), "who," or "which." Even the equally old Douay version has "which was manifested in the flesh." All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word oV ("who") here instead of qeoV ("God"). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16? [7(Bottom of Page)]

Noted trinitarian Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:
“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts – though the majority even of Byzantine manuscripts still preserved the true reading.” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A
Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:
“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes:

“The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott & Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And very trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.
And even hyper-trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς[‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.

Even if we were to insist that those later manuscripts that used theos were, somehow, correct, we would have to recognize that it is the anarthrous (without the definite article) theos which we find. This is rarely, if ever, the form used for the only true God (when the known exceptions are taken into account). Instead, it either points to the probability that it is a corrupted os (which of course would not have the article in the first place), or, less probable, but still possible, that Christ is being called "a god" - see the BOWGOD and DEF studies.
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7. Some trinitarian paraphrase Bibles are even more certain and clear:
"He (Christ) was shown to us in a human body" - ETRV.
"Christ appeared in human form" - Weymouth.
"Christ came to earth as a man" - NLV.
"Christ, who came to earth as a man" - LB.
"Here is the great mystery of our religion:
Christ came as a human." – CEV.
I'm not sure what your final conclusion is but let's look at the Byzantine Koine Greek Text for 1 Tim 3:16:

(1 Tim 3:16) καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν Πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί literally translates to God revealed in flesh. Here we have the verse that completely obliterates Unitarianism, as if John 1:1 wasn't enough. All Unitarians (@Wrangler , @APAK ) can now weep and wail for their destroyed idol tower of blatant heresies.
 
Unitarians have only one God.. Themselves.
Is that the purpose of the original post? I no longer know what they are arguing over. So many Biblical proofs given and it makes no difference to them. It's not even a difference of opinion. It's like they can't even read the words in the Bible.
 
Is that the purpose of the original post? I no longer know what they are arguing over. So many Biblical proofs given and it makes no difference to them. It's not even a difference of opinion. It's like they can't even read the words in the Bible.
its presuppositionalism at its finest when one reads their preconceived ideas/doctrines into every passage. Christ is not God ( presupposition ) therefor any passage that indicates He is God must be false or misunderstood by the person.
 
its presuppositionalism at its finest when one reads their preconceived ideas/doctrines into every passage. Christ is not God ( presupposition ) therefor any passage that indicates He is God must be false or misunderstood by the person.
I have yet to see any scholarship given in support of their view. Is their Bible version they keep referring to the only "proof"? This seems to just be modern Arianism. And that was soundly dealt with (or was supposed to be ) in the Council of Nicea all the way back in 325 AD.
 
I have yet to see any scholarship given in support of their view. Is their Bible version they keep referring to the only "proof"? This seems to just be modern Arianism. And that soundly dealt with (or was supposed to be ) in the Council of Nicea all the way back in 325 AD.
The unitarian scholars are far and few between and not many are biblical language experts by any means.
 
Well, I mean what is invisible to us. So in the spiritual realm, our view isnt anywhere near as great. So a being in that realm could seem a certain way to us, but actually be much much greater. So with the Trinity. Our view is limited. But the Trinity is not on that plane of view.
GINOLJC, to all.
True our view is limited, but in reality, it's in plain sight. example, when The Syria army which was sent to Dothan to apprehend Elisha, his servant eyes was open to what was already there. 2 Kings 6:15 "And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?" 2 Kings 6:16 "And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them." 2 Kings 6:17 "And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha."

this was no so much as in a different dimension, but more of a bending of wavelength in light. as said a collapsing of the field. but there is much more way that just those mention.

101G.
 
its presuppositionalism at its finest when one reads their preconceived ideas/doctrines into every passage. Christ is not God ( presupposition ) therefor any passage that indicates He is God must be false or misunderstood by the person.

The Lord is working in this in a way that He uses to alert His flock of the following:

1st Corinthians 11:18-19 spells it out for us.
For first of all, when you come together in the church,
I hear that there be divisions among you
and I believe this is true of a part of you.

For there must also be heresies among you . . .
that the approved ones may be made known among you.


(Note: The heresies here are self-willed opinions that are contrary to Bible doctrine. Paul is saying the heresies are somewhat tolerated, to determine who are the 'approved ones'. They are the ones who, in this case, stay out of the divisions. This is one way to find the real leaders of the Church.)


Nothing gets wasted in God's economy.


grace and peace .............
 
The Lord is working in this in a way that He uses to alert His flock of the following:

1st Corinthians 11:18-19 spells it out for us.
For first of all, when you come together in the church,
I hear that there be divisions among you
and I believe this is true of a part of you.


For there must also be heresies among you . . .
that the approved ones may be made known among you.


(Note: The heresies here are self-willed opinions that are contrary to Bible doctrine. Paul is saying the heresies are somewhat tolerated, to determine who are the 'approved ones'. They are the ones who, in this case, stay out of the divisions. This is one way to find the real leaders of the Church.)


Nothing gets wasted in God's economy.


grace and peace .............
Thats a different way of looking at it that I had not thought of before, thanks !
 
Great message on exactly the topic in the original post. Who has the courage to spend the time to listen to an actual expert?
What James White ...... unknowing did .......... confirmed just what 101G has been saying all the time. the Lord Jesus is the LORD, who is the "Lord" in flesh. same "ONE" person in the ECJAD. let the bible tell us and examine what James White said.

Note Tape time 11:20 through 13:45 he is sighting the creative order…. “For him” which James White says reference to both the Father and the Son, listen carefully to what he said, "For Him". If this is true, then in Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." this has to be the Son, for only the Son received POWER. knowing that, now, Colossians 1:16 states, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" James White refers back to 1 Corinthians 8:5 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)" 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." in referring back to 1 Corinthians 8:5 he said this is the Father.

he ask who is this one who gave himself. and remember he said, follow the prepositions.

Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

here is the dilemma. if the LORD is not the one in all the above scriptures, then one has two separate creators. so James White just destroyed the trinity. the doctrine he believe, and he don't even know it. for Proverbs 16:4 destroyes what Jame White just said. LISTEN, "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

101G.
 
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I'm not sure what your final conclusion is but let's look at the Byzantine Koine Greek Text for 1 Tim 3:16:

(1 Tim 3:16) καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν Πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί literally translates to God revealed in flesh. Here we have the verse that completely obliterates Unitarianism, as if John 1:1 wasn't enough. All Unitarians (@Wrangler , @APAK ) can now weep and wail for their destroyed idol tower of blatant heresies.
You do not make scripture sense Synergy. He's a few reasons this is so,,,

The word ‘God’ was added into this verse deliberately in a few translations to say that God was Jesus who was revealed in the flesh. The KJV lead the way.

Additionally, the passage does not read ‘in the flesh. It says, ‘in flesh’ or as a human being. Some translation read “in a body.”

The word ‘eusebias’ translated as ‘godliness’ is the best translation into English, although still an incomplete thought in its translation.

Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His (God’s) mystery.

The oldest manuscripts do not have the word ‘God’ or in Greek, ‘theos’ in this verse. Fortunately, modern translators have completed omitted this most probable translators’ error.

Instead of God, they used the word ‘He,’ ‘Who’ or ‘Which’ instead.
NIV 1984 edition - “HE appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit...”
NASB 1995 edition - “HE WHO was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit...”
RSV - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”
ESV 2001 - “HE (R10) was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit...” Footnote 10 - Greek Who; some manuscripts God; others Which.
Holman Standard 2003 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit”
ISV (International Standard Version) - “In flesh was HE revealed to sight, Kept righteous by the Spirit's might”
Catholic Douay-Rheims 1582 - “And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, WHICH was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels,”
Catholic Douay 1950 - "great is the mystery of godliness: WHICH was manifested in the flesh"
St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”
Catholic New Jerusalem bible 1985 - “HE was made visible in the flesh, justified in the Spirit...”
Catholic Public Domain Version 2009 - "this mystery of piety, which was manifested in the flesh"

Another clear issue with using ‘God’ for the Greek word ‘euebias,’ is that if we just keep reading further into the verse, it says that God was justified in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the Gentiles, was believed on in the world, and he was received into glory. This would be nonsense as Christ did all these things and not his Father. Unless one wants to use circular logic and say Jesus is God because God who is really Jesus did all these things in the verse, and not just the man and the anointed of God, is Son, Yahshua.

So, the best translated section of passage should read ‘…great is the mystery of godliness who was revealed in flesh…’ This interpretation says that the secret of Godly thoughts and plans, his word (and holiness, piety and godliness) for our salvation was revealed in a human being. His name is Jesus Christ or Yahshua, and not his Father of his (Holy) Spirit.

Next, we can look at a Greek Lexicon of 1 Timothy 3:16, which verifies the Greek interlinear.
Next, we can look at the Mounce reverse Greek interlinear of 1 Timothy 3:16.
Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest complete Greek new testament in existence, dating back to the 4th century.
1 Tim 3:16 in the Lamsa bible - Aramaic text - 5th century.
St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405A.D. of 1 Timothy 3:16 in Google translate.
Armenian bible – translated from the Peshitta Syriac text in 411AD of I Timothy 3:16
and openly in the godly counsel, manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, was believed in heaven and glory.

The NET BIBLE is a completely new translation of the Bible! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

Coptic text – from ancient Egyptian – 4th & 9th century AD of I Timothy 3:16
'^ And confessedly, great is the mystery of the godliness, *that
which was manifested in (the) flesh, was justified in the sjnrit [spirit],
was manifested unto the angels, was proclaimed among the
ncdions [nations], was believed in the tuorld [world], was taken up away
^ Lit. 'be, having become.' ^ Or 'he who.

Near the bottom of the page, look at some quoted highlights of the footnote: [My clarifications are in square brackets]

“It appears that sometime after the 2nd century the θεός [Theos = God] reading came into existence, either via confusion with ὅς [hos = who] or as an intentional alteration to magnify Christ and clear up the syntax at the same time. Once it got in, this theologically rich reading was easily able to influence all the rest of the mss [manuscripts] it came in contact with (including mss already written, such as אA C D). That this reading did not arise until after the 2nd century is evident from the Western reading, ὅ [which].
As TCGNT [Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament] 574 notes,
“no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεός [Theos = God]; all ancient versions presuppose ὅς [hos = who] or ὅ [ho = which]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [theos].”
Definition of Patristic
pa·tris·tic [puh-tris-tik]
adjective
of or pertaining to the fathers of the Christian church or their writings.

In light of the last fact (and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [Theos = God].”), it is interesting to note that the third part of the trinity had just come into being by the commandments of men in 381A.D.

Encyclopedia Britannica on Council-of-Constantinople
“Council of Constantinople, (381), the second ecumenical council of the Christian church, summoned by the emperor Theodosius I and meeting in Constantinople. Doctrinally, it promulgated what became known to the church as the Nicene Creed; it also declared finally the Trinitarian doctrine of the equality of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.”

Thus, some of the newer texts that read theos [God] were changed many centuries after the bible was already written and contradicts all the oldest uncial manuscripts. Therefore, they are a deliberate corruption of I Timothy 3:16. The companion bible details how it happened.

Screenshot of the Companion Reference Bible; notes on I Timothy 3:16.

Notice that in the blue box, I Timothy 4:1 is highlighted.

Immediately after the Felony Forgery of I Timothy 3:16, I Timothy 4:1 speaks for itself:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

Facsimile of the Codex Alexandrinus
“Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh."”

1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation.

However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.

Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another ΘC circled for comparison.
His Father promised and gave Jesus immortality for the first time in his existence, after his death on the Cross. It was the grace of God his Father. This is what is meant by godliness in 1 Tim 3:16; this mysterious or incomprehensible act by God, the Father, and our Father that transformed his Son from a human to an immortal.
 
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This would be nonsense as Christ did all these things and not his Father.
correct, but...
So, the best translated section of passage should read ‘…great is the mystery of godliness who was revealed in flesh…’ This interpretation says that the secret of Godly thoughts and plans, his word (and holiness, piety and godliness) for our salvation was revealed in a human being. His name is Jesus Christ or Yahshua, and not his Father of his (Holy) Spirit.
if you use that translation, it destroys your unitarian view. and here's why. 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
this received up would violate the Lord Jesus own word when Mark records, Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." because no ... "MAN" .....John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

now if the Lord Jesus was received up into Heaven, then he's no mere man. because the Greek word "Taken up" eliminate the Lord Jesus as a mere Man, again because of .John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
353 [e]
anelēmphthē
ἀνελήμφθη
was taken up
V-AIP-3S
received up: G353 ἀναλαμβάνω analambano (a-na-lam-ɓa'-nō) v.
to take up.
[from G303 and G2983]
KJV: receive up, take (in, unto, up)
Root(s): G303, G2983

as said if the Lord Jesus is a mere man, then your translation eliminates the unitarian view.

Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

received up: G353 ἀναλαμβάνω analambano (a-na-lam-ɓa'-nō) v.
to take up.
[from G303 and G2983]
KJV: receive up, take (in, unto, up)
Root(s): G303, G2983

so, you might want to re-arrange your translation.

101G.
 
correct, but...

if you use that translation, it destroys your unitarian view. and here's why. 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
this received up would violate the Lord Jesus own word when Mark records, Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." because no ... "MAN" .....John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

now if the Lord Jesus was received up into Heaven, then he's no mere man. because the Greek word "Taken up" eliminate the Lord Jesus as a mere Man, again because of .John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
353 [e]
anelēmphthē
ἀνελήμφθη
was taken up
V-AIP-3S
received up: G353 ἀναλαμβάνω analambano (a-na-lam-ɓa'-nō) v.
to take up.
[from G303 and G2983]
KJV: receive up, take (in, unto, up)
Root(s): G303, G2983

as said if the Lord Jesus is a mere man, then your translation eliminates the unitarian view.

Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

received up: G353 ἀναλαμβάνω analambano (a-na-lam-ɓa'-nō) v.
to take up.
[from G303 and G2983]
KJV: receive up, take (in, unto, up)
Root(s): G303, G2983

so, you might want to re-arrange your translation.

101G.
(Joh 3:12) If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
(Joh 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.
(Mar 16:19) So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.

I suggest you understand the idioms used in John 3:13, and also the previous John 3:12 verse, together. This lack of knowledge as caused you to make a false claim or alarm. And who said Yahshua was just a mere man anyway?

How was Yahshua in heaven 101G whilst he was speaking these words 3:12b?
 
And who said Yahshua was just a mere man anyway?
is this not the unitarian view? the Lord Jesus is a just a man a sheliaḥ of God.

now think before you answer, if you say the Lord Jesus is not a mere man, then he will be either an Angel...... (smile), which the JW use to believe, or he, (the Lord Jesus himself) ...... is "God". and that will address 1 Timothy 3:16. 101G warn you to think before you answer.

101G.
 
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Because of being two different natures uniquely in union, the Lord can, at will, make himself detached away from his Divine abilities afforded him by his unique access to the full powers of Deity. Thus, making his soul able to function in the capacities of being solely a perfect man.



Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped,
but emptied himself
by taking the form of a slave,
by becoming in the likeness of people.
And being found in appearance like a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
that is, death on a cross.

Philippians 2:5-8​


If the unique ability for the Lord to transform himself into limiting himself to the functions of being only as a man, is understood?
Then the golden Key that unlocks the understanding needed to know how God could create man with free will, in spite of God being omniscient.

God does not play games.....

With God, what seems to be mysterious riddles? Are in reality, possessing power like atomic bombs.

By means of the Son the Trinity worked together in creating men outside of God's Omniscience. The very omniscience that would have prevented man from being created with free will.

Adam had free will. Fallen man lost the ability for free will. But, by means of the enabling power of God's grace, God will restore men to having free will. Free, as long as he keeps walking in grace.

grace and peace .................
 
You do not make scripture sense Synergy. He's a few reasons this is so,,,

The word ‘God’ was added into this verse deliberately in a few translations to say that God was Jesus who was revealed in the flesh. The KJV lead the way.

Additionally, the passage does not read ‘in the flesh. It says, ‘in flesh’ or as a human being. Some translation read “in a body.”

The word ‘eusebias’ translated as ‘godliness’ is the best translation into English, although still an incomplete thought in its translation.

Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His (God’s) mystery.

The oldest manuscripts do not have the word ‘God’ or in Greek, ‘theos’ in this verse. Fortunately, modern translators have completed omitted this most probable translators’ error.

Instead of God, they used the word ‘He,’ ‘Who’ or ‘Which’ instead.
NIV 1984 edition - “HE appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit...”
NASB 1995 edition - “HE WHO was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit...”
RSV - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”
ESV 2001 - “HE (R10) was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit...” Footnote 10 - Greek Who; some manuscripts God; others Which.
Holman Standard 2003 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit”
ISV (International Standard Version) - “In flesh was HE revealed to sight, Kept righteous by the Spirit's might”
Catholic Douay-Rheims 1582 - “And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, WHICH was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels,”
Catholic Douay 1950 - "great is the mystery of godliness: WHICH was manifested in the flesh"
St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”
Catholic New Jerusalem bible 1985 - “HE was made visible in the flesh, justified in the Spirit...”
Catholic Public Domain Version 2009 - "this mystery of piety, which was manifested in the flesh"

Another clear issue with using ‘God’ for the Greek word ‘euebias,’ is that if we just keep reading further into the verse, it says that God was justified in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the Gentiles, was believed on in the world, and he was received into glory. This would be nonsense as Christ did all these things and not his Father. Unless one wants to use circular logic and say Jesus is God because God who is really Jesus did all these things in the verse, and not just the man and the anointed of God, is Son, Yahshua.

So, the best translated section of passage should read ‘…great is the mystery of godliness who was revealed in flesh…’ This interpretation says that the secret of Godly thoughts and plans, his word (and holiness, piety and godliness) for our salvation was revealed in a human being. His name is Jesus Christ or Yahshua, and not his Father of his (Holy) Spirit.

Next, we can look at a Greek Lexicon of 1 Timothy 3:16, which verifies the Greek interlinear.
Next, we can look at the Mounce reverse Greek interlinear of 1 Timothy 3:16.
Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest complete Greek new testament in existence, dating back to the 4th century.
1 Tim 3:16 in the Lamsa bible - Aramaic text - 5th century.
St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405A.D. of 1 Timothy 3:16 in Google translate.
Armenian bible – translated from the Peshitta Syriac text in 411AD of I Timothy 3:16
and openly in the godly counsel, manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, was believed in heaven and glory.

The NET BIBLE is a completely new translation of the Bible! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

Coptic text – from ancient Egyptian – 4th & 9th century AD of I Timothy 3:16
'^ And confessedly, great is the mystery of the godliness, *that
which was manifested in (the) flesh, was justified in the sjnrit [spirit],
was manifested unto the angels, was proclaimed among the
ncdions [nations], was believed in the tuorld [world], was taken up away
^ Lit. 'be, having become.' ^ Or 'he who.

Near the bottom of the page, look at some quoted highlights of the footnote: [My clarifications are in square brackets]

“It appears that sometime after the 2nd century the θεός [Theos = God] reading came into existence, either via confusion with ὅς [hos = who] or as an intentional alteration to magnify Christ and clear up the syntax at the same time. Once it got in, this theologically rich reading was easily able to influence all the rest of the mss [manuscripts] it came in contact with (including mss already written, such as אA C D). That this reading did not arise until after the 2nd century is evident from the Western reading, ὅ [which].
As TCGNT [Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament] 574 notes,
“no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεός [Theos = God]; all ancient versions presuppose ὅς [hos = who] or ὅ [ho = which]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [theos].”
Definition of Patristic
pa·tris·tic [puh-tris-tik]
adjective
of or pertaining to the fathers of the Christian church or their writings.

In light of the last fact (and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [Theos = God].”), it is interesting to note that the third part of the trinity had just come into being by the commandments of men in 381A.D.

Encyclopedia Britannica on Council-of-Constantinople
“Council of Constantinople, (381), the second ecumenical council of the Christian church, summoned by the emperor Theodosius I and meeting in Constantinople. Doctrinally, it promulgated what became known to the church as the Nicene Creed; it also declared finally the Trinitarian doctrine of the equality of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.”

Thus, some of the newer texts that read theos [God] were changed many centuries after the bible was already written and contradicts all the oldest uncial manuscripts. Therefore, they are a deliberate corruption of I Timothy 3:16. The companion bible details how it happened.

Screenshot of the Companion Reference Bible; notes on I Timothy 3:16.

Notice that in the blue box, I Timothy 4:1 is highlighted.

Immediately after the Felony Forgery of I Timothy 3:16, I Timothy 4:1 speaks for itself:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

Facsimile of the Codex Alexandrinus
“Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh."”

1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation.

However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.

Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another ΘC circled for comparison.
His Father promised and gave Jesus immortality for the first time in his existence, after his death on the Cross. It was the grace of God his Father. This is what is meant by godliness in 1 Tim 3:16; this mysterious or incomprehensible act by God, the Father, and our Father that transformed his Son from a human to an immortal.
You do not make any grammar sense APAK. Here's why:

For argument's sake, let's go with your "He" version (ESV):

(1 Tim 3:15) if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.
(1 Tim 3:16) Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

If we accept this reading then the antecedent of "He" (or "who" in some versions) is "the living God", namely, the living God was manifested in flesh.

Thus, the difference in the manuscripts of single stroke (OΣ vs. ΘΣ) makes no difference to the message nor theology: the living God was manifested in flesh.

Lastly and most important, if God was the Word (John 1:1) and Word became flesh (John 1:14) then for sure God was manifested in flesh.
 
You are missing the point; both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are bound together as the definition the Christian God as opposed to the idols of the pagans.
I'm not missing the point. You are missing the point.

2 Gods do not make a trinity. According to Scripture, there is one God, Jesus' God and his name is YHWH, not Jesus.
 
Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί literally translates to God revealed in flesh. Here we have the verse that completely obliterates Unitarianism, as if John 1:1 wasn't enough. All Unitarians (@Wrangler , @APAK ) can now weep and wail for their destroyed idol tower of blatant heresies.
This is such nonsense. "God revealed in the flesh" is just another way to say Jesus is NOT God - even though your Eisegesis pretends that's what it means.

AS IF John 1:1 is not enough? It is nothing. It does not even refer to Jesus. You just cannot accept that words are WHAT's not WHO's.

Scripture is explicit that Jesus is the son of God, period, full stop, end of story. This proves he is NOT God. But your IDOLATRY won't let it go; you have to read into unitarian text that it means the opposite of what it says. Scripture says over and over again there is one God and not once does it say Jesus is God and not once does it say God is 3-in-one.
 
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