Eternal Justification !

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
I will not spend a lot of time on each, or, I'll be here awhile, besides, they all, or at least most, will fall under the sense I will applied to the very first one.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

The context just before limits this world to those that have their sin taken away. Context is our master; we let it define a word rather than a word set context. This is how all literature is read – context must determine word meanings.

Many read this world and impose a doctrine on the Bible it and we cannot bear. They require it to mean every single human ever conceived with exception. Such a heresy and travesty creates countless contradictions with scripture.

We interpret a text in two steps … what it cannot mean … what it must mean. It cannot mean all men without exception, for scripture fully overthrows it.

It means the world without distinction as in the OT God was the God of the Jews only for the most part, so we will find the word world including the other nations besides the Jewish nation. So, we will find the word world used. We should understand the reason why.

Here are a few examples of contradictions created by forcing a universal sense without an exceptions.
  1. Why do those in the lake of fire have their sins and are sent there for them?
  2. Why will books be opened to reveal sins of men if the sins were taken away?
  3. Did He take away the sin of those He said would die in their sins (John 8:21)?
  4. They force world unlimited wide but limit hate to a little less love (Romans 9:13)
Here are a few examples of John and others’ use of the word world in scripture.John’s use of world … 12:19 (some men), 14:17 (except apostles), 15:19 (reprobate men), 16:20 (except apostles), 17:14 (except apostles), etc., etc. Luke used all the world for a very small part of the Roman Empire, which is easily determined by only one factor – the obvious context (Luke 2:1). Paul used world for the Gentiles as opposed to the Jews (Romans 11:12,15).What does the whole world mean in both Romans 1:8 and in Ist John 5:19? Why do some expand world in Mark 16:15 but shrink the world in Col 1:6? Rather than enter upon a word study of world here, find some links below.

We know God sent Jesus Christ to take away the sin of the world meaning Jews and Gentiles, but we also know not all Jews, or all Gentiles, but his sheep among both. Romans 9:6-8

We can compare the world of 2nd Corinthians 5:19 with 2nd Timothy 2:10 to see the elect.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
I cannot take all of them but the most popular ones I will, and if you think I should, and did not do one you wanted me to address, then tell me and I will.
John 3:16 is not give us or you any problem if we allow scriptures to interpret themselves for us~and they will. Biblical interpretation truly belongs to God.
Yes they do.

In John's gospel chapter three, Jesus is speaking to a Jewish ruler, and revealing to him that God's love is not limited to the Jewish nation anymore, but his love is for all nations~not all without exceptions (because even among Israel God had an elect people, not all Jews were children of God's promises ~read again Romans 9:6-8) but all without distinction~Read Romans 3:29; 9:24; 10:10-13; etc.

I'll come back and do more.
 
In the past two decades have witnessed a resurgence of Calvinism among American evangelicals. This resurgence is especially evident within the Southern Baptist Convention, which historically has been and still is divided over the issue. However, it has also made its presence felt in Pentecostal denominations such as the Assemblies of God, which do not have historic ties to Calvinism.
That I do not think so, could be wrong.

Folks have a strong tendency to attach Calvinism to almost anyone who believes even in one point of Calvinism, that I have seen.

The Pentecostals that I'm familiar with (SBN) do not like Calvinism, even though their understanding of the teachings of Calvinism is very shadow to say the least. I just witness on SBN last week where they had two to three broadcasts attempting to disprove Calvinism on Francis and Friends Broadcast ~ and they did a very pitiful (somewhat painful to watch of their lack of knowledge of the scriptures overall) attempt to do so, to any person who has above average understanding of the truth~yet, they thought they had done a superb job of exposing Calvinism~but, that's what is called deception,and they still think they did a great job~truly when the blind leads the blind both will end up in a ditch. Very deserving so.
By Calvinism, I mean specifically the doctrine of salvation that is commonly explained by means of the acronym, TULIP:

• T = Total depravity
• U = Unconditional election
• L = Limited atonement
• I = Irresistible grace
• P = Perseverance of the saints
Sir, two of them I slightly disagree with.

  1. Calvinism errs with its point of Irresistable Grace, for they apply it to the gospel and conversion, which is farther than truth.
    1. They apply irresistible grace, or what they name the “effectual call,” to the preaching of the gospel in the case of all the elect.
    2. They believe that all the elect will hear and believe the gospel sometime during their lives and cannot be saved without these things.
    3. This is sacramental salvation, for unless the “priest” carries the grace of God’s gospel to the elect, they cannot be saved without it.
    4. They must therefore invent all sorts of alternative theories to cover the salvation of infants, idiots, heathen, the deaf and blind, etc.
    5. Of course, they rarely define what they mean by “saving faith,” or they would make it to loose, or limit the elect to just a very few.
    6. The typical Calvinist, even John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards, seldom differentiate clearly between regeneration and conversion.
    7. God’s grace is definitely irresistible when it comes to regeneration, but conversion by the gospel depends on preacher and hearer.
    8. The first of the acts is God’s work in salvation, and the second is the information and news concerning it for the comfort of the elect.
    9. Ministers must make war with their hearers, for conversion is and always has been a struggle against the resistance of the saints.
  2. However, Calvinism errs with its point of Final Perseverance, for they end up with a fatalist doctrine of men incapable of backsliding.
    1. Persevering is man’s action. If God guarantees man’s perseverance, then he will continue in faith and good works without fail.
    2. This fatalistic doctrine, if logically followed, would render the New Testament epistles and the work of the ministry unnecessary.
    3. If by final perseverance the Calvinist means God will not lose any of His elect, then why not call it preservation like the Bible?
    4. God will preserve His saints so that not one will be lost and all make it safely to heaven, but He has not guaranteed their faithfulness. Remember Lot, and others.
• F = Freed by grace to believe
• A = Atonement for all
• C = Conditional election
• T = Total depravity
• S = Security in Christ
I have not read enough by Jacob Arminius to say he did or did not believe in total depravity, but what little I have read, I think he did, which truly puzzles any thinking person. Total depravity is the main pillar that supports the house of Calvinism.

How can you say the first point is true~
Freed by grace to believe
When total depravity teaches one cannot on your own power believe! Again, how can one teach against unconditional election when they also believe in total depravity~there's a serious problem with that teaching. Of course, inconsistency is the hallmark of error!
In Does God Love Everyone? Jerry L. Walls—an evangelical philosopher—outlines an argument against Calvinism and for Arminianism. Its strength is that it focuses on the central point of the disagreement between them. Walls writes:


The deepest issue that divides Arminians and Calvinists is not the sovereignty of God, predestination, or the authority of the Bible. The deepest difference pertains to how we understand the character of God. Is God good in the sense that he deeply and sincerely loves all people?


According to Walls, the answer of Arminianism is “Yes.” The answer of Calvinism is “No.” As Calvinist author Arthur W. Pink put it in The Sovereignty of God: “When we say that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom he chooses. God does not love everybody…” Walls argues that Pink’s statement is characteristic of Calvinism, even if it’s stated with a bluntness uncharacteristic of most Calvinists.
Just because God does not love all me, that's not a blot upon the character of God, God is not indebted to anyone. God created man upright, placed him in a perfect world, in a beautiful garden, with a beautiful naked woman, with one simple commandment to keep and left man to himself. Man's sin and the condemnation that followed is his own doing, not God's~it is a wonder that God chose to love anyone, even more so that he loved ME.

So, maybe Arminian think God should had placed a sign on the side of the Ark to remind those people that that should smile because loved them.

The deepest issue that divides Arminians and Calvinists is not the sovereignty of God, predestination, or the authority of the Bible.
I disagree~the pure doctrine of God's sovereignty in doing all things after the counsel of his own will and not after what man thinks is fairness~is the biggest doctrine that separates the two opposing camps. The reason being is man has created a god in his heart that he thinks should think the way he thinks if he was God.

Break time, be back later...RB
 
Yes, on that part I read Gill, he's overall very sound~he will generally give you two views to consider, and always will tell you which one he thinks is correct, generally I agree with him.

I like John Brine as much as John Gill ~ he was at one time a deacon in the church Gill pastored, then went on and pastor a church for around 34 years himself. His article on Eternal Justification is as good as there are out in print.
Yes I have studied them both on EJ very enlightening !
 
Because of Suretyship !

Justification before the foundation for the Elect of God is True because of Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

This is Pre Creation within the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Also called the Everlasting Covenant, Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, He agreed and took upon Himself all the sins of the Elect to sponsor, hence it was God's Purpose not to charge them [sins and lawbreaking] against His Elect, but confirmed Christ's Suretyship, therefore He became the main debtor to God's Law and Justice for their sins, and they being made free from any and all accountability, for themselves to satisfy God's Law and Justice ! To deny this Justification is to deny a foundational blessing of Christ's Suretyship for His Sheep ! 3
 
I cannot take all of them but the most popular ones I will, and if you think I should, and did not do one you wanted me to address, then tell me and I will.
John 3:16 is not give us or you any problem if we allow scriptures to interpret themselves for us~and they will. Biblical interpretation truly belongs to God.

Yes they do.

In John's gospel chapter three, Jesus is speaking to a Jewish ruler, and revealing to him that God's love is not limited to the Jewish nation anymore, but his love is for all nations~not all without exceptions (because even among Israel God had an elect people, not all Jews were children of God's promises ~read again Romans 9:6-8) but all without distinction~Read Romans 3:29; 9:24; 10:10-13; etc.

I'll come back and do more.
I want to hyper focus on the world and what it means in Johns writings. Then we can see how Gods love for the world reads in scripture without dogma, doctrines taught by man but what the Bible actually says regarding Gods love for the world.

cosmos from Thayers- the inhabitants of the world ie the human race.

. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17;


love from thayers lexicon

ἀγαπάω, (ῶ; (imperfect ἠγάπων); future ἀγαπήσω; 1 aorist ἠγάπησα; perfect active (1 person plural ἠγαπήκαμεν, 1 John 4:10 WH text), participle ἠγαπηκῶς (2 Timothy 4:8); passive (present ἀγαπῶμαι); perfect participle ἠγαπημένος; 1 future ἀγαπηθήσομαι; (akin to ἄγαμαι (Fick, Part 4:12; see ἀγαθός, at the beginning)); to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same: Luke 7:47; 1 John 4:7f; with the accusative of the person, to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of: Matthew 5:43ff; Matthew 19:19; Luke 7:5; John 11:5; Romans 13:8; 2 Corinthians 11:11; 2 Corinthians 12:15; Galatians 5:14; Ephesians 5:25, 28; 1 Peter 1:22, and elsewhere; used often in the First Epistle of John of the love of Christians toward one another; of the benevolence which God, in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending his Son to them and giving him up to death, John 3:16;


Barnes' Notes on the Bible ( an honest Calvinist theologian )

For God so loved - This does not mean that God approved the conduct of men, but that he had benevolent feelings toward them, or was "earnestly desirous" of their happiness. God hates wickedness, but he still desires the Happiness of those who are sinful. "He hates the sin, but loves the sinner." A parent may love his child and desire his welfare, and yet be strongly opposed to the conduct of that child. When we approve the conduct of another, this is the love of complacency; when we desire simply their happiness, this is the love of benevolence.
The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.

2. All people were in a hopeless condition.

3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.

4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.

5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.

and calvin said this about the world Jesus died for in John 3:16

" because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish "

" And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life "

" The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded "

John 3 Calvin's Commentaries

literal meaning:

For God so loved ( was full of good will, benevolence ) the world ( the inhabitants of the world, the human race ) that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever( universally for everyone: calvin ) believes in Him shall not persish but have everlasting life.

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47. 5B

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

which references several key passages- John 3:17, 17; 6:51; 12:47


1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17
-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19
- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone not exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me an anti calvinist then so be it as some have labeled me.

I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation.

hope this helps !!!
 
I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation.

hope this helps !!!
Greetings~I doubt not that you believe you are all about truth as you think what you hold is truth, and as you said....
never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context.
Here we both are on the same page with your first three confessions~but, we are not on the same page with you last statement which I highlighted in red.
but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context.
Now, sir, that would be true of me, but not so true of you, and the reason I'm saying this is because you immediately started out your post by quoting
. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17;


love from thayers lexicon

ἀγαπάω, (ῶ; (imperfect ἠγάπων); future ἀγαπήσω; 1 aorist ἠγάπησα; perfect active (1 person plural ἠγαπήκαμεν, 1 John 4:10 WH text), participle ἠγαπηκῶς (2 Timothy 4:8); passive (present ἀγαπῶμαι); perfect participle ἠγαπημένος; 1 future ἀγαπηθήσομαι; (akin to ἄγαμαι (Fick, Part 4:12; see ἀγαθός, at the beginning)); to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same: Luke 7:47; 1 John 4:7f; with the accusative of the person, to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of: Matthew 5:43ff; Matthew 19:19; Luke 7:5; John 11:5; Romans 13:8; 2 Corinthians 11:11; 2 Corinthians 12:15; Galatians 5:14; Ephesians 5:25, 28; 1 Peter 1:22, and elsewhere; used often in the First Epistle of John of the love of Christians toward one another; of the benevolence which God, in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending his Son to them and giving him up to death, John 3:16;
Biblical interpretations are from God via his holy word, not from men who run to the Greek, or different versions until they find one that agrees with what they are pushing as God's truth. THe method God ahs chosen is found here:
Jesus Christ always to his hearers back to the scriptures, to God's testimony of the truth, whatever truth was under consideration.

God's chosen people are for the most cases are not among the wise of this world, neither nobles, but common men and women, fishermen, tax collectors, carpentures, the nobodies of this world, generally uneducated. They do not need to learn a language in order to see, and know the truth on any given subject.
Sir, why would any man think he need some other man take the Greek and give the meaning of words before they can understand the true teachings on a subject in their own tongue. We are not in darkness concerning the devil's devices, to believe such a lie. No pun intended toward you personally since i really do not know you. Even if I did know you personally I still would refuse to judge any man's salvation over such things.

The early Christians rode the white horse from Jerusalem up into the Romans Empire and took a left (Revelation 6:1,2) and brought the gospel conquering as they went using only the written word of God handled down to them by ready scribes in their own language of that day, not in the language which Moses first wrote the scriptures~ a language that no doubt changed over the years, yet the word of God was preserved by Godin tact, in every generation's language. They did not think that they had to know the original language in which Moses first gave the scriptures ~ they trusted God to preserve his word according to Psalms 12 and he has even until our very day!

I'm one that would never use the so called original language since no man has ever seen them and besides, we do not need them to know the truth, truth is hidden in the word of God not in the Greek language ~ a precious treasure that we must seek for with all of our hearts.

I'll be back to work on your post.
 
Greetings~I doubt not that you believe you are all about truth as you think what you hold is truth, and as you said....

Here we both are on the same page with your first three confessions~but, we are not on the same page with you last statement which I highlighted in red.

Now, sir, that would be true of me, but not so true of you, and the reason I'm saying this is because you immediately started out your post by quoting

Biblical interpretations are from God via his holy word, not from men who run to the Greek, or different versions until they find one that agrees with what they are pushing as God's truth. THe method God ahs chosen is found here:

Jesus Christ always to his hearers back to the scriptures, to God's testimony of the truth, whatever truth was under consideration.

God's chosen people are for the most cases are not among the wise of this world, neither nobles, but common men and women, fishermen, tax collectors, carpentures, the nobodies of this world, generally uneducated. They do not need to learn a language in order to see, and know the truth on any given subject.

Sir, why would any man think he need some other man take the Greek and give the meaning of words before they can understand the true teachings on a subject in their own tongue. We are not in darkness concerning the devil's devices, to believe such a lie. No pun intended toward you personally since i really do not know you. Even if I did know you personally I still would refuse to judge any man's salvation over such things.

The early Christians rode the white horse from Jerusalem up into the Romans Empire and took a left (Revelation 6:1,2) and brought the gospel conquering as they went using only the written word of God handled down to them by ready scribes in their own language of that day, not in the language which Moses first wrote the scriptures~ a language that no doubt changed over the years, yet the word of God was preserved by Godin tact, in every generation's language. They did not think that they had to know the original language in which Moses first gave the scriptures ~ they trusted God to preserve his word according to Psalms 12 and he has even until our very day!

I'm one that would never use the so called original language since no man has ever seen them and besides, we do not need them to know the truth, truth is hidden in the word of God not in the Greek language ~ a precious treasure that we must seek for with all of our hearts.

I'll be back to work on your post.
You cannot define a biblical word apart from a Hebrew or Greek Lexicon. Are you fluent in biblical Hebrew and Greek? Can you read, write, speak and translate those languages into English ?

You have just used the strawman fallacy. :) as a defense to disregard the biblical meaning of words and phrases used in scripture.
 
You cannot define a biblical word apart from a Hebrew or Greek Lexicon. Are you fluent in biblical Hebrew and Greek? Can you read, write, speak and translate those languages into English ?

You have just used the strawman fallacy. :) as a defense to disregard the biblical meaning of words and phrases used in scripture.
My friend,

God's word is its own dictionary, overall considering. The Holy Ghost will define His own meanings with the words he has chosen to speak.

Keep from hijacking this thread please consider this article and if you desire to comment on it, you can start a thread and I'll come there and we can talk more on this. Thank you in advance for your consideration of the article which I find to be spot on.

 
My friend,

God's word is its own dictionary, overall considering. The Holy Ghost will define His own meanings with the words he has chosen to speak.

Keep from hijacking this thread please consider this article and if you desire to comment on it, you can start a thread and I'll come there and we can talk more on this. Thank you in advance for your consideration of the article which I find to be spot on.

I have gotten a late start today~I'll post more later today.

Concerning the article by Mr. Warren, (whom I have never met, only through emails exchanges) while I do appreciate some of his writings, we do differ on certain doctrines, even in our approach concerning the scriptures~I would that he was a little more committed to the KJV, even though it is the only one he uses, nevertheless, every man must give account of himself to God toward his word, so I'll leave that with the Lord.

He at one time was much more active on his forum than he is now~even though I no longer participate on it since it has gotten too political for me, along with a few doctrines, that I'll not mentioned, since every man must decide for himself, plus, my opinion is not ask for, thereby, unnecessary to be given.

He gave the leadership of it over to another person and he's running it into the ground by trying to paint a boat while sinking~which is what folks do fighting the corruption in politics, either supporting a man or against a man ~ God has not called his people to be a voice in this arena~vote we can, but too much time is a waste of good time that could be spent serving God, and his people.
 
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My friend,

God's word is its own dictionary, overall considering. The Holy Ghost will define His own meanings with the words he has chosen to speak.

Keep from hijacking this thread please consider this article and if you desire to comment on it, you can start a thread and I'll come there and we can talk more on this. Thank you in advance for your consideration of the article which I find to be spot on.

It was not written in English :)
 
It was not written in English :)
Correct~but we have God's promise here:

A few points to consider quickly.

David is crying out for help from a certain "type of" people that live in every generation since Abel and Cain.

David calls them "this" generation. Whom he had previously described as those that speak vanity, with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak~the same generation of evil men oppress the poor, afflict the righteous

What we have they cannot touch and corrupt, is the word of God, with God's promises to preserve his word from "them for ever" ~ even though they have attempted to burn them; with pious righteousness to rewrite them, yet God has from Moses to John preserved them for his children in their own language, even unto our day and will until Jesus comes again.

Note: This generation is the same generation Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:34.
 
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Context is king, so let us consider a single scripture in its context before we can say, we have not been dishonest, neither being guilty of handling the word of God deceitfully.
"supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks: be made for all men;"~Even within this exhortation by Paul, to Timothy, concerning prayers for all men, it is limited to whom we should pray for, consider: For kings and all in authority, and reasons are given as to why we should pray for such men...also note with our prayers we should offer thanks for such men.

Please note: certainly the meaning is not, that thanks should be given for wicked men living ii open sin and hatred of God and religion, neither for persecutors, and particularly for any person who speaks evil of God and believers and their faith, nor for heretics, and false teachers, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom the apostle had delivered to Satan. Most all commentaires by the old divines understood and taught~ of men of all sorts, of every rank and quality, as the following verses will prove.

"For kings, and for all that are in authority that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, in all godliness and honesty;" The all men in verse one is explained here to mean those in authority, with the purpose of those under their authority living a quiet and peaceable life, unlike what we see day in and day out, in the middle east.

"Who will have all men to be saved" The only biblical sense is God wills all type of men to be saved~poor and rich, the ignorant and wise, nobles to the nobodies. Modified only by 1st Corinthians 1:26-31.


"come to the knowledge of the truth"~Of Christ, who is the truth, and to faith in him, and of all the truth of the Gospel, as it is in Jesus; not merely to a notional knowledge of it, which persons may arrive unto, and not be saved, but a spiritual and experimental knowledge of it; and all that are saved are brought to such a knowledge, which is owing to the sovereign will and good pleasure of God, who hides the knowledge of Gospel truths from the wise and prudent, and reveals them to babes: whence it appears, that it is not his will with respect to every individual of mankind; that they should thus come to the knowledge of the truth; for was it his will they should, he would, no doubt, give to every man the means of it, which he has not, nor does he; he suffered all nations to walk in their own ways, and overlooked their times of ignorance, and sent no message nor messenger to inform them of his will; he gave his word to Jacob, and his statutes unto Israel only; and the Gospel is now sent into one part of the world, and not another; and where it does come, it is hid to the most; many are given up to strong delusions to believe a lie, and few are savingly and experimentally acquainted with the truths of the Gospel; though all that are saved are brought to the knowledge of such truths as are necessary to salvation; for they are chosen to it through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth. (John Gill)

"Who gave himself a ransom for all" The only sense that will flow with all scriptures is: that Christ gave himself a ransom for all sorts of men, for men of every rank and quality, of every state and condition, of every age and sex, and for all sorts of sinners, and for some out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation, for both Jews and Gentiles; This view is even more supported by what Paul said here:

a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity which help with the sense of all men, no longer limited to the Jews only as it was before Christ came. The will of God is that ALL MEN come to the knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world~Jews and Gentiles. Not all the world without exceptions, but all the world without distinction. God ahs always made exceptions and always will, for he has the right to do as he pleases, and no man can say unto him~what doest thou?
 
My friend,

God's word is its own dictionary, overall considering. The Holy Ghost will define His own meanings with the words he has chosen to speak.

Keep from hijacking this thread please consider this article and if you desire to comment on it, you can start a thread and I'll come there and we can talk more on this. Thank you in advance for your consideration of the article which I find to be spot on.


That website is based upon English correlations. You must believe English is required to understand the Bible.

Please state clearly that you believe this. Otherwise, you're making a circular argument.
 
Context is king, so let us consider a single scripture in its context before we can say, we have not been dishonest, neither being guilty of handling the word of God deceitfully.

"supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks: be made for all men;"~Even within this exhortation by Paul, to Timothy, concerning prayers for all men, it is limited to whom we should pray for, consider: For kings and all in authority, and reasons are given as to why we should pray for such men...also note with our prayers we should offer thanks for such men.

I hope you don't mind me joining this conversation.....I'm going to dismantle your argument one statement at a time.

The fatal flaw you're making here is that you're judging the words of another based upon what you want them to say and not what they actually say.

You are dismissing the words of Paul relative to your own appeal to the doctrine you believe.

Please note: certainly the meaning is not, that thanks should be given for wicked men living ii open sin and hatred of God and religion, neither for persecutors, and particularly for any person who speaks evil of God and believers and their faith, nor for heretics, and false teachers, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom the apostle had delivered to Satan. Most all commentaires by the old divines understood and taught~ of men of all sorts, of every rank and quality, as the following verses will prove.

Did you notice that Paul appealed to Hymenaeus and Alexander's potential change?

"that they may learn not to blaspheme". Read those words again "that they may learn not to blaspheme."

What you don't know. What Paul didn't know (and rightfully recognized with his own words here) is the" if and when" wherein someone might change........

That is why we rightful pray for sinful men of "all types". Get the "ALL" comments. All types included... = equaling ALL.....

I ask you correct your obvious mistake. There is nothing but one "class of sinner" regardless of "type".
 
Correct~but we have God's promise here:


A few points to consider quickly.

David is crying out for help from a certain "type of" people that live in every generation since Abel and Cain.

David calls them "this" generation. Whom he had previously described as those that speak vanity, with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak~the same generation of evil men oppress the poor, afflict the righteous



Note: This generation is the same generation Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:34.

KJVOnlyist alert!!!!!

The name on your bible tells the tale. Your king is dead.

IFB? Who is your leader besides king james and the monarchy that is fading away? I might know them.

What we have they cannot touch and corrupt, is the word of God, with God's promises to preserve his word from "them for ever" ~ even though they have attempted to burn them; with pious righteousness to rewrite them, yet God has from Moses to John preserved them for his children in their own language, even unto our day and will until Jesus comes again.

You mean Bereshit (funny ole english renderings) to Yohanan?
 
Because of Suretyship !

Justification before the foundation for the Elect of God is True because of Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

This is Pre Creation within the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Also called the Everlasting Covenant, Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, He agreed and took upon Himself all the sins of the Elect to sponsor, hence it was God's Purpose not to charge them [sins and lawbreaking] against His Elect, but confirmed Christ's Suretyship, therefore He became the main debtor to God's Law and Justice for their sins, and they being made free from any and all accountability, for themselves to satisfy God's Law and Justice ! To deny this Justification is to deny a foundational blessing of Christ's Suretyship for His Sheep ! 3

You must be worthy. I mean God chose YOU. God doesn't choose unwisely. God chooses good things. It is impossible for God to chose a bad thing... right?

Can you tell me of your worth?

You and @Red Baker both.
 
@praise_yeshua

God chooses good things.

Explain this 1 Cor 1:27-29

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 
@praise_yeshua



Explain this 1 Cor 1:27-29

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Then all the "weak" peoples of humanity are chosen? Don't you despise sinners? Where does that leave you? Don't you despise me? Does that mean I'm chosen?

You didn't think this through at all.........
 
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