Calvinisms deficient Christology

[TomL]

Would be in Christ? The choice is made "in Christ". The text is past and present tense. There is no "would be".

Except you were not in Christ before the foundation of the world

Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

The idea is those who become in Christ would be chosen to holy and blameless

That is what God determined before the foundation of the world

not that unconditionally selected men would be put in Christ

 

[Presby02]

Except you were not in Christ before the foundation of the world

Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

The idea is those who become in Christ would be chosen to holy and blameless

That is what God determined before the foundation of the world

not that unconditionally selected men would be put in Christ

No one claims I was. I was chosen in Christ however.

Again, in the text there is no "become in Christ". A phrase uttered nowhere in the pages of scripture.

 

[TomL]

No one claims I was. I was chosen in Christ however.

Again, in the text there is no "become in Christ". A phrase uttered nowhere in the pages of scripture.

If you were separated from Christ you could not be chosen in Christ

Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.



One becomes in Christ when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It happens in time

Romans 16:7 (ESV) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.


The idea is that God determined those in Christ should be holy and blameless

 

[Presby02]

If you were separated from Christ you could not be chosen in Christ

Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.



One becomes in Christ when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It happens in time

Romans 16:7 (ESV) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.


The idea is that God determine those in Christ should be holy and blameless

Why not? Why can I not be separated yet chosen from the foundation of the world?

 

[TomL]

Why not? Why can I not be separated yet chosen from the foundation of the world?

You cannot be separated and in Christ at the same time

and the text does not state unconditionally selected men were chosen to be in Christ.

 

[Presby02]

You cannot be separated and in Christ at the same time

and the text does not state unconditionally selected men were chosen to be in Christ.

Again, why not?

It fails to mention it conditional as well.

 

[TomL]

Again, why not?

It fails to mention it conditional as well.

In Christ is a condition

You have to be in Christ to be chosen to be holy and blameless

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Every spiritual blessing is in Christ

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Except you were not in Christ before the foundation of the world

All the elect were in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 that includes them referred to in Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[TomL]

@TomL


All the elect were in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 that includes them referred to in Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

You left up the refutation of your claim

Eph 2;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
also
Romans 16:7 (ESV) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

 

[Presby02]

In Christ is a condition

You have to be in Christ to be chosen to be holy and blameless

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Every spiritual blessing is in Christ

And the choice is God's. "He chose US". Paul fails to mention your choice.

 

[Presby02]

In Christ is a condition

You have to be in Christ to be chosen to be holy and blameless

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Every spiritual blessing is in Christ

It's a condition? What kind of a condition?

 

[TomL]

And the choice is God's. "He chose US". Paul fails to mention your choice.

The us are believers.

He chose believers to be holy

Not unconditionally selected men

 

[TomL]

It's a condition? What kind of a condition?

One must be united with Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[brightfame52]

You left up the refutation of your claim

Eph 2;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
also
Romans 16:7 (ESV) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

Those in Eph 2:12 and Rom 16:7 are In Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. Now in time when a person of the elect is regenerated they are in Christ spiritually and in fellowship. See the elect will be called into spiritual fellowship with Christ 1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son
Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word unto means:

1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among

Now some of the elect are called into this fellowship before others like Rom 16:7

Now I took time to explain this to you, but you wont be able to see it.

 

[Presby02]

One must be united with Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Okay. That does not preclude the choosing of who would be in Christ from the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Okay. That does not preclude the choosing of who would be in Christ from the foundation of the world.

It does not preclude who was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. In fact they are the ones the Gospel of their salvation is sent to Eph 1:4 ff Eph 1:13

 

[TomL]

Okay. That does not preclude the choosing of who would be in Christ from the foundation of the world.

There was no choosing of who would be in Christ

The verse does not say that

 

[TomL]

Those in Eph 2:12 and Rom 16:7 are In Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. Now in time when a person of the elect is regenerated they are in Christ spiritually and in fellowship. See the elect will be called into spiritual fellowship with Christ 1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son
Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word unto means:

1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among

Now some of the elect are called into this fellowship before others like Rom 16:7

Now I took time to explain this to you, but you wont be able to see it.

Sorry that is self contradictory and contrary to scripture

Eph 2;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
also
Romans 16:7 (ESV) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

 

[brightfame52]

There was no choosing of who would be in Christ

The verse does not say that

There was chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 and they are in Him as His Seed. Does scripture teach Christ has a seed ? Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No one claims I was. I was chosen in Christ however.

Again, in the text there is no "become in Christ". A phrase uttered nowhere in the pages of scripture.

No. It was an indiscriminate choice relative to conformity. Conformity to Christ was purpose.... not you personally.