Calvinism makes man a new creation apart from Christ

Ahar said:
Like in God's workmanship of sending his son...

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, Galatians 4:4

This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins 1 John 4:9-10

In other words, we are wholly the result of God’s creative, redemptive, and sanctifying work, and we belong to Him. Bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. All you need is enough faith to believe in him. Then God's Workmanship mold us into the image of Christ from glory to glory.
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What Gods Son did upon the Cross resulted in everyone He died for, His Sheep are Made a New Creature, a Believer, a follower. Faith in Christ is part of being made a new Creature. The old man cant believe in Christ, it hates Christ in fact.
 
brightfame52 said:
What Gods Son did upon the Cross resulted in everyone He died for, His Sheep are Made a New Creature, a Believer, a follower. Faith in Christ is part of being made a new Creature. The old man cant believe in Christ, it hates Christ in fact.
Click to expand...
Christ died for all


Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Even Judas

Luke 22:14–23 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed! 23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
 
TomL said:
Christ died for all


Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Even Judas

Luke 22:14–23 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed! 23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
Click to expand...
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Other than that you dealing with a false christ.
 
brightfame52 said:
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Do you disagree ? If a person never becomes a new creature, Christ couldn't have died for them. That would mean His death failed to produce a new creature.
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circular reasoning fallacy. you are arguing for your presuppositions, not scripture
 
brightfame52 said:
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Do you disagree ? If a person never becomes a new creature, Christ couldn't have died for them.
Click to expand...
Sorry B, but that would be like saying because an employee of a company hasn't had materialize the benefits of their contractual agreement that therefore means there is nothing to the agreement. Not so at all. I've seen many who were meant to be a recipients of the benefits of a covenant but went without.

eg. Work boots belonged to them. They never however told their foreman on the floor they wanted them and they never got a slip to go to the store. Whose fault was it therefore that they failed to get them? Not the leader of the company but yours if you're the person.

brightfame52 said:
That would mean His death failed to produce a new creature.
Click to expand...
Sorry but your off the rail message is that one doesn't really have to do what Rom 10:9,10 says one has to do, which is believe unto righteousness and confess the Lordship of Christ.

And it doesn't matter how much you boldly seek to assert you don't have to do that that God would just do it all for you if it's not true it's not true PERIOD and I've got news for you it's not true what you're saying and advocating.

So you're going forth telling people they don't have to believe unto righteousness after hearing the gospel. You're saying God will just do all that for you. GREAT ERROR and takes one away on just how to be saved.
 
Rockson said:
Sorry B, but that would be like saying because an employee of a company hasn't had materialize the benefits of their contractual agreement that therefore means there is nothing to the agreement. Not so at all. I've seen many who were meant to be a recipients of the benefits of a covenant but went without.

eg. Work boots belonged to them. They never however told their foreman on the floor they wanted them and they never got a slip to go to the store. Whose fault was it therefore that they failed to get them? Not the leader of the company but yours if you're the person.


Sorry but your off the rail message is that one doesn't really have to do what Rom 10:9,10 says one has to do, which is believe unto righteousness and confess the Lordship of Christ.

And it doesn't matter how much you boldly seek to assert you don't have to do that that God would just do it all for you if it's not true it's not true PERIOD and I've got news for you it's not true what you're saying and advocating.

So you're going forth telling people they don't have to believe unto righteousness after hearing the gospel. You're saying God will just do all that for you. GREAT ERROR and takes one away on just how to be saved.
Click to expand...
He simply does not understand atonement is a provisional measure. It does not save anyr who do not trust in it. As even the Calvinist Shedd notes

It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]


[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.
 
TomL said:
He simply does not understand atonement is a provisional measure. It does not save anyr who do not trust in it. As even the Calvinist Shedd notes

It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]


[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.
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yes faith and the gospel are not necessary in his theology- they are nothing but an afterthought.
 
brightfame52 said:
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Do you disagree ? If a person never becomes a new creature, Christ couldn't have died for them. That would mean His death failed to produce a new creature.
Click to expand...
Can you not read and understand?

I affirmed Christ died for all and posted scripture showing that. Unfortunately you are unresponsive to scripture
 
Rockson said:
Sorry B, but that would be like saying because an employee of a company hasn't had materialize the benefits of their contractual agreement that therefore means there is nothing to the agreement. Not so at all. I've seen many who were meant to be a recipients of the benefits of a covenant but went without.

eg. Work boots belonged to them. They never however told their foreman on the floor they wanted them and they never got a slip to go to the store. Whose fault was it therefore that they failed to get them? Not the leader of the company but yours if you're the person.


Sorry but your off the rail message is that one doesn't really have to do what Rom 10:9,10 says one has to do, which is believe unto righteousness and confess the Lordship of Christ.

And it doesn't matter how much you boldly seek to assert you don't have to do that that God would just do it all for you if it's not true it's not true PERIOD and I've got news for you it's not true what you're saying and advocating.

So you're going forth telling people they don't have to believe unto righteousness after hearing the gospel. You're saying God will just do all that for you. GREAT ERROR and takes one away on just how to be saved.
Click to expand...
Sorry, if you say Christ died for people He didnt save and make new, then you are saying He failed. See His Redeeming death makes them He died for people zealous of good works Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
TomL said:
Can you not read and understand?

I affirmed Christ died for all and posted scripture showing that. Unfortunately you are unresponsive to scripture
Click to expand...
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Do you disagree ? If a person never becomes a new creature, Christ couldn't have died for them. That would mean His death failed to produce a new creature.
 
brightfame52 said:
Christ died for all whom He saved and made a New Creature. Do you disagree ? If a person never becomes a new creature, Christ couldn't have died for them. That would mean His death failed to produce a new creature.
Click to expand...
Is the answer to this then no?

Can you not read and understand?

I affirmed Christ died for all and posted scripture showing that. Unfortunately you are unresponsive to scripture
 

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