Calvinism makes man a new creation apart from Christ

Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You never do address scriptural rebuttal do you?


Still you fail to show men receive soteriological blessing apart from Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Your doctrine is contrary to scripture
 
It’s interesting that while Eph 2:8-9 says it is through (dia) faith, Paul uses ek in Gal 3:2 instead of dia. Ek, means “out of” and seems to paint the picture of one thing coming out another, perhaps like a child born out of its mother.

So the logical implication of this picture is that “hearing in faith” is the birth canal by which receiving the Spirit is accomplished. And birth canals are already existent before the birthing process can take place. The ability to hear with faith must preexist the receiving of the Spirit.


Doug
Great 👍 analogy
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Did you know God does not believe for you, and it is something you must do

In other words it is of yourself
 
You never do address scriptural rebuttal do you?


Still you fail to show men receive soteriological blessing apart from Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Your doctrine is contrary to scripture
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Did you know God does not believe for you, and it is something you must do

In other words it is of yourself
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The gift is wsalvation

The verse does not teach what you believe



10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That references the saved
 
The gift is wsalvation

The verse does not teach what you believe





That references the saved
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Strawman. Nobody here is advocating works of the Law. We kicked that habit 2K years ago. If your Parishioners are still doing works of the Law then you need to talk to them. As for us, our ancestors kicked that habit 2K years ago.
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That simply speaks of salvation not how one becomes a believer




10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
and that references the saved
 
Strawman. Nobody here is advocating works of the Law. We kicked that habit 2K years ago. If your Parishioners are still doing works of the Law then you need to talk to them. As for us, our ancestors kicked that habit 2K years ago.
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
That simply speaks of salvation not how one becomes a believer





and that references the saved
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Hi good works are nice try - 2:10
 
Hi good works are nice try - 2:10
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Faith, Believing in Christ is part of the workmanship, men by nature are unbelievers.
 
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Faith, Believing in Christ is part of the workmanship, men by nature are unbelievers.
No it doesn't say that about faith- thats your misrepresentation of the text and your dogma at work.
 
Yes, it does say that about faith.
Sorry faith is of yourself as you must believe - God is not going to do it for you

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

salvation is the gift

as scripture shows

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the two qualifing phrases

Ephesians 2:8–9 (ESV) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

make no sense if faith is the gift
 
No it doesn't say that about faith- thats your misrepresentation of the text and your dogma at work.
Did you know that becoming a believer is the result of Gods workmanship ? Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Faith, Believing in Christ is part of the workmanship, men by nature are unbelievers.
 
Ephesians 2:8–9 (ESV) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The grammar dictates what "this" points to. It can't point to salvation, because the grammar does not allow that. You're suggesting that the verse says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [saved] is not your own doing." That's stupid. It's equally stupid for "this" to refer back to "grace". That makes the verse "And this [grace] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". That interpretation makes the verse needlessly redundant.

The only way "this" can point to salvation is if the verse read "For by grace you have salvation through faith. And this [salvation]".

But that's not how the verse reads. The verse reads "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [faith] is not your own doing;"
 
The grammar dictates what "this" points to. It can't point to salvation, because the grammar does not allow that. You're suggesting that the verse says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [saved] is not your own doing." That's stupid. It's equally stupid for "this" to refer back to "grace". That makes the verse "And this [grace] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". That interpretation makes the verse needlessly redundant.

The only way "this" can point to salvation is if the verse read "For by grace you have salvation through faith. And this [salvation]".

But that's not how the verse reads. The verse reads "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [faith] is not your own doing;"
Sorry you have no ideas what you are talking about. You have no understanding of Greek grammar and many Greek exegetes reject your claim.

Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

The words, “through faith” speak of the instrument or means whereby the sinner avails himself of this salvation which God offers him in pure grace. Expositors says: “Paul never says ‘through the faith,’ as if the faith were the ground or procuring cause of the salvation.” Alford says: “It (the salvation) has been effected by grace and apprehended by faith.” The word “that” is touto (τουτο), “this,” a demonstrative pronoun in the neuter gender. The Greek word “faith” is feminine in gender and therefore touto (τουτο) could not refer to “faith.” It refers to the general idea of salvation in the immediate context. The translation reads, “and this not out from you as a source, of God (it is) the gift.” That is, salvation is a gift of God. It does not find its source in man. Furthermore, this salvation is not “out of a source of works.” This explains salvation by grace. It is not produced by man nor earned by him. It is a gift from God with no strings tied to it.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English Reader (vol. 4; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), 69.


For by grace, etc. This may truly be called exceeding riches of grace, for ye are saved by grace. Grace has the article, the grace of God, in vv. 5, 7.

And that. Not faith, but the salvation.

Of God. Emphatic. Of God is it the gift


Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 3; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 376.

and this (not your faith, as Chrys. οὐδὲ ἡ πίστις, φησίν, ἐξ ὑμῶν: so Thdrt., al., Corn.-a-Iap., Beza, Est., Grot., Beng., all.;—this is precluded (not by the gender of τοῦτο, but) by the manifestly parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, of which the latter would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:—but, as Calv., Calov., Rück., Harl., Olsh., Mey., De W., Stier, al., ‘your salvation;’ τὸ σεσωσμένοι εἶναι, as Ellic.) not of yourselves, GOD’S (emphatic) is the gift (not, as E. V. ‘it is the gift of God’ (θεοῦ δῶρον),—τὸ δῶρον, viz. of your salvation:

Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 3; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 94.
 
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