Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

[civic]

I think they're merely into asserting things. They don't care if it makes sense.

Or if they add or take away from passages. One like to say a half truth all the time by quoting half the verse

God is not a man that he should repent leaving out what precedes it that God is not a man that He should lie.

That’s just one example of many used by the Calvinist to distort scripture to support their beliefs.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but the way you reason to put forth your Calvinism is just so laughable

So a saving work of a life boat is to keep people from drowning? If one refuses to get into the boat do you blame the boat and say it didn't fulfill it's purpose?

If you have a fire extinguisher in your house and a fire breaks out and you fail to make use of that equipment do you say the manufacturer must have messed up on the design? What sort of joke is that?

Sorry sir, its no way around it. To say that the Person and Work of Christ merely made men Savable, it betrays Hs very Work 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
It doesnt say:
1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to make sinners saveable ; of whom I am chief.

 

[Rockson]

Or if they add or take away from passages. One like to say a half truth all the time by quoting half the verse

God is not a man that he should repent leaving out what precedes it that God is not a man that He should lie.

That’s just one example of many used by the Calvinist to distort scripture to support their beliefs.

Yes and sad that they spend their whole lives seeking to support a philosophy that takes their listeners to a depressing and discouraging way to think about God. Absolute shame.

 

[Rockson]

Sorry sir, its no way around it. To say that the Person and Work of Christ merely made men Savable, it betrays Hs very Work 1 Tim 1:15

Well there's no way to around if you're bound determined you're going to stay with resisting a basic thought that a savable product eg like a lifeboat didn't carry out its work of saving merely because some refused to get into the boat.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Yes I agree. That's what Jesus came to do. And lifeboats are on board a ship to save passengers? So what's your point?

It doesnt say:
1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to make sinners saveable ; of whom I am chief.

Come on you're being silly. Back to the boat. Think Titanic. All are aware that some people might not get into a boat. No crew member would say to someone asking what those boats are for would see the need to say they make passengers savable. But it is true none the less. It doesn't guarantee they WILL BE SAVED but salvation is available to them. You can't deny that.

 

[brightfame52]

Well there's no way to around if you're bound determined you're going to stay with resisting a basic thought that a savable product eg like a lifeboat didn't carry out its work of saving merely because some refused to get into the boat.

Yes I agree. That's what Jesus came to do. And lifeboats are on board a ship to save passengers? So what's your point?


Come on you're being silly. Back to the boat. Think Titanic. All are aware that some people might not get into a boat. No crew member would say to someone asking what those boats are for would see the need to say they make passengers savable. But it is true none the less. It doesn't guarantee they WILL BE SAVED but salvation is available to them. You can't deny that.

To make men saveable ? That undermines the Cross of Christ 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The Cross has a saving converting effect Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Thats Salvation !

 

[civic]

Well there's no way to around if you're bound determined you're going to stay with resisting a basic thought that a savable product eg like a lifeboat didn't carry out its work of saving merely because some refused to get into the boat.

Yes I agree. That's what Jesus came to do. And lifeboats are on board a ship to save passengers? So what's your point?


Come on you're being silly. Back to the boat. Think Titanic. All are aware that some people might not get into a boat. No crew member would say to someone asking what those boats are for would see the need to say they make passengers savable. But it is true none the less. It doesn't guarantee they WILL BE SAVED but salvation is available to them. You can't deny that.

It’s unbelievable how some will deny the biblical truth and substitute man made doctrines in its place. Their authority is from man, not God. Doctrine can be so blinding and man’s pride will not allow him to admit to it, it takes a miracle from God. I know first hand how God revealed my doctrines I held for decades as untrue and I began questioning most everything I had believed with an open mind/ heart. It all came down to Gods character and how that aligned with my beliefs. If those two don’t line up then Houston we have a problem that needs to be reconciled.

 

[Jim]

You have to be regenerated to believe the Truth

If that were the truth, then the God of the Bible would have regenerated absolutely everyone.

 

[civic]

If that were the truth, then the God of the Bible would have regenerated absolutely everyone.

Ditto

 

[Jim]

Thats because the one who believes already had eternal life and had been ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

That is really a bad translation/interpretation of Acts 13:48. It has already shown in verse 46 that the Jews decided for themselves to reject Paul's message; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life... Thus, it can only be that the Gentiles did otherwise. They accepted Paul's message. Grammatically it can be shown the Greek word, τεταγμενοι, could be translated/interpreted in the middle voice instead of the passive voice: and as many as resolved themselves to eternal life believed. And that is clearly consistent with Paul's message.

 

[Rockson]

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Thats Salvation !

Sure but you're merely playing a game of bluff to suggest that in anyone backs up Calvinist thinking.

 

[brightfame52]

If that were the truth, then the God of the Bible would have regenerated absolutely everyone.

It is the Truth. Faith in Christ is a Sanctified act.

 

[brightfame52]

That is really a bad translation/interpretation of Acts 13:48. It has already shown in verse 46 that the Jews decided for themselves to reject Paul's message; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life... Thus, it can only be that the Gentiles did otherwise. They accepted Paul's message. Grammatically it can be shown the Greek word, τεταγμενοι, could be translated/interpreted in the middle voice instead of the passive voice: and as many as resolved themselves to eternal life believed. And that is clearly consistent with Paul's message.

Its a good translation, only the ordained to eternal life believe, they already have eternal life. So everytime you see that someone believed, its because they were ordained to eternal life and sanctified by the Spirit.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



This statement is a denigration of the Person and Work, the Cross of Christ, for the Cross saves, by it Paul says Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Hardly as it magnifies the work of Christ

 

[brightfame52]

Sure but you're merely playing a game of bluff to suggest that in anyone backs up Calvinist thinking.

The Cross of Christ saved them He died for. To say it only made people savable is most derogatory to His Person and Work.

 

[brightfame52]

Hardly as it magnifies the work of Christ

It is an belittlement of the Cross of Christ, its a belittlement of Jesus Christ the Saviour, to say all what He did only made people saveable. It magnifies the will of man

 

[TomL]

Still nothing about anything provisional there. FAIL I hope you have more.

Again

There is if you read and believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ was given to the world that the world might be saved

Hello. That is provision as even a grade schooler could understand.

read, think, believe

 

[brightfame52]

Again

There is if you read and believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ was given to the world that the world might be saved

Hello. That is provision as even a grade schooler could understand.

read, think, believe

Those who believe were ordained to eternal life previously Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Its the same as many the Father had given Him to give eternal life Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

 

[TomL]

Those who believe were ordained to eternal life previously Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Its the same as many the Father had given Him to give eternal life Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Um those disposed to eternal life believed

The Father gave to Christ those that were his and not men randomly unconditionally sellected

 

[civic]

It is the Truth. Faith in Christ is a Sanctified act.

More conjecture

 

[civic]

Um those disposed to eternal life believed

The Father gave to Christ those that were his and not men randomly unconditionally sellected

Yes those who already listened and learned from the Father were given to the Son.

They deny the obvious condition of listening and learning