Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

[TomL]

To say Christs Cross work merely makes men saveable is to deny the Saving Work of Christ !

Can you read?

Again the cross made all men savable and saves those that believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Repeating the same error doesn’t make you look good

To say Christs Cross work merely makes men saveable is to deny the Saving Work of Christ ! Its worth repeating !

 

[TomL]

To say Christs Cross work merely makes men saveable is to deny the Saving Work of Christ ! Its worth repeating !

No one has stated that

It saves those that believe as well; as make all men saveable

 

[brightfame52]

Can you read?

Again the cross made all men savable and saves those that believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Those whom Christ died for do believe because the cross crucifies them to world and the world to them , that's how they become believers Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[fn] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[brightfame52]

No one has stated that

It saves those that believe as well; as make all men saveable

To say Christs Cross work merely makes men saveable is to deny the Saving Work of Christ !

 

[Presby02]

There is if you read and believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Sorry, nothing about provisional anything there. It's called special pleading. Look it up

 

[TomL]

Sorry, nothing about provisional anything there. It's called special pleading. Look it up

There is if you read and believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ was given to the world that the world might be saved

Hello

read, think, believe

 

[Joe]

A part of the Lord's renewing of my mind after freeing me from Calvinism is understanding His character and sovereignty. He enlightened me that man is free to make choices within established parameters, and the freedom to decide is according to His sovereignty. After being enlightened, I came across the thoughts of A.W. Tozer that match what was given to me.

God's sovereignty A.W. Tozer
From his book The Knowledge of the Holy

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

A part of the Lord's renewing of my mind after freeing me from Calvinism is understanding His character and sovereignty. He enlightened me that man is free to make choices within established parameters, and the freedom to decide is according to His sovereignty. After being enlightened, I came across the thoughts of A.W. Tozer that match what was given to me.

God's sovereignty A.W. Tozer
From his book The Knowledge of the Holy

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

God Bless

This promotes Salvation by man, mans choice makes the difference for salvation and not Gods. God relinquishes His Sovereignty in Salvation to mans free choice !

 

[Presby02]

There is if you read and believe

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ was given to the world that the world might be saved

Hello

read, think, believe

Still nothing about anything provisional there. FAIL I hope you have more.

 

[Jim]

A part of the Lord's renewing of my mind after freeing me from Calvinism is understanding His character and sovereignty. He enlightened me that man is free to make choices within established parameters, and the freedom to decide is according to His sovereignty. After being enlightened, I came across the thoughts of A.W. Tozer that match what was given to me.

God's sovereignty A.W. Tozer
From his book The Knowledge of the Holy

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

God Bless

Tozer's book, The Knowledge of the Holy, is a really good source to help with understanding the person and work of the Holy Spirit. It has been many years since I read it. Maybe I should get it out and reread it.

 

[Jim]

Still nothing about anything provisional there. FAIL I hope you have more.

It doesn't say, "whoever has been regenerated should not perish, but have everlasting life". It says, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

[civic]

A part of the Lord's renewing of my mind after freeing me from Calvinism is understanding His character and sovereignty. He enlightened me that man is free to make choices within established parameters, and the freedom to decide is according to His sovereignty. After being enlightened, I came across the thoughts of A.W. Tozer that match what was given to me.

God's sovereignty A.W. Tozer
From his book The Knowledge of the Holy

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

God Bless

Amen

 

[civic]

It doesn't say, "whoever has been regenerated should not perish, but have everlasting life". It says, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

Yes notice how the Calvinists always add or take away from scripture with their doctrines

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn't say, "whoever has been regenerated should not perish, but have everlasting life". It says, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

You have to be regenerated to believe the Truth, its the result of the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thss 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So its scriptural to know that whenever one is said to believe, its because of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit and because they are one of Gods beloved Chosen ones

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Again the cross made all men savable

This statement is a denigration of the Person and Work, the Cross of Christ, for the Cross saves, by it Paul says Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn't say, "whoever has been regenerated should not perish, but have everlasting life". It says, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

Thats because the one who believes already had eternal life and had been ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Rockson]

To say Christs Cross work merely makes men saveable is to deny the Saving Work of Christ !

Sorry but the way you reason to put forth your Calvinism is just so laughable

So a saving work of a life boat is to keep people from drowning? If one refuses to get into the boat do you blame the boat and say it didn't fulfill it's purpose?

If you have a fire extinguisher in your house and a fire breaks out and you fail to make use of that equipment do you say the manufacturer must have messed up on the design? What sort of joke is that?

 

[civic]

Sorry but the way you reason to put forth your Calvinism is just so laughable

So a saving work of a life boat is to keep people from drowning? If one refuses to get into the boat do you blame the boat and say it didn't fulfill it's purpose?

If you have a fire extinguisher in your house and a fire breaks out and you fail to make use of that equipment do you say the manufacturer must have messed up on the design? What sort of joke is that?

Yes the blindness is astounding

 

[Rockson]

Yes the blindness is astounding

Yes the blindness is astounding

I think they're merely into asserting things. They don't care if it makes sense.