You could have, sure, but you didn't. You chose your greatest desire at that moment.
Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will
- Thread starter civic
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I agree. You did not decide for no reason. You decided for a reason and that reason was your greatest desire at that moment.
civic
Well-known member
nope thats Greek Philosophy which is not in the bible.
Biblelesson
Active member
The sovereignty of God is the same as the lordship of God, for God is the sovereign over all of creation. The major components of God’s lordship are his control, authority, and presence. To discuss the sovereignty of God, though, is to focus particularly on the aspect of control, though this should not bracket God’s authority and gracious presence out of the discussion.
The control that God exercises over all things is both efficacious and universal; there is not one thing outside of his control. This even extends to human sin and faith. However, people still remain free and God remains innocent of sin. This is because humans have the freedom to do whatever it is that they want, while their desires are in turn decided by their natures, situations, and, ultimately, God.
www.thegospelcoalition.org
The control that God exercises over all things is both efficacious and universal; there is not one thing outside of his control. This even extends to human sin and faith. However, people still remain free and God remains innocent of sin. This is because humans have the freedom to do whatever it is that they want, while their desires are in turn decided by their natures, situations, and, ultimately, God.
Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom
Divine sovereignty, which is that God exercises efficacious, universal, and loving control over all things, is compatible with human freedom.
www.thegospelcoalition.org
civic
Well-known member
Yet God is disappointed, relents, repents, changes His mind depending on mans response, answers prayer etc.... . If God is Sovereign and in control over every single thing that comes to pass these passages would not be found in Scripture. There is no divine meticulous predetermined control of God over man. man has the freedom to obey and seek God or the same freedom to reject Him. God does not control mans thoughts and actions as calvinism teaches.The sovereignty of God is the same as the lordship of God, for God is the sovereign over all of creation. The major components of God’s lordship are his control, authority, and presence. To discuss the sovereignty of God, though, is to focus particularly on the aspect of control, though this should not bracket God’s authority and gracious presence out of the discussion.
The control that God exercises over all things is both efficacious and universal; there is not one thing outside of his control. This even extends to human sin and faith. However, people still remain free and God remains innocent of sin. This is because humans have the freedom to do whatever it is that they want, while their desires are in turn decided by their natures, situations, and, ultimately, God.
Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom
Divine sovereignty, which is that God exercises efficacious, universal, and loving control over all things, is compatible with human freedom.
Biblelesson
Active member
Non-Calvinist would have us believe that God is sovereign, but God’s sovereignty is limited by human freedom. If that were the case, then who is sovereign?
civic
Well-known member
Ultimately God is Sovereign but that does not mean He controls the actions of man. That is where freedom come in and boundaries God has set into place with consequences for both the good and bad choices we make. Thats why there is a law in the bible and society to govern the people not as a dictator but as a King who rules the people well.
Name a choice that is not.
Biblelesson
Active member
We have been given a measure of freedom by our Creator, but our freedom is always and everywhere limited by God’s freedom. God is sovereign, not we ourselves, and His sovereignty extends to all things, not only the creation of the world but the sustaining and governing of the world, and what we describe as the laws of nature only describe the ordinary ways that God in His sovereignty governs nature.
In the same way his laws covering us. As for the actions of man If He chooses to permit it, He deems it wise that it should come to pass, or else He would not permit it because He does all things well, including the exercise of His sovereignty.
No non Calvinist believes that. The issue concerns the freedom of will God has determined to allow
Which I determined
Says who? Another Provisionist presupposition???
Rather who can deny
Do you imagine you know the reason I chose tea at that moment or do you imagine I could not have done differently.
You could have but your greatest desire at tge moment you chose was tea. How many times do I have to say it?
Now, about your Provisionist presupposition......
And the reason it was my greatest desire was chosen by me
How many times do I have to say it
Now about your Calvinist presuppositions..................
How do you know that? Again, prove it or it's simply another Provisionist presupposition.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO ASK?
Prove me wrong
That is simply your presumption
The bible teaches man has free will
(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
and you can add both the NEB and the REB
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.
NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.
SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.
(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(RASV)but without your consent I would do nothing; that your goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(UASV)but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by necessity but of your own free will.
Leviticus 7:16 (YLT)
16 `And if the sacrifice of his offering is a vow or free-will offering, in the day of his bringing
near his sacrifice it is eaten; and on the morrow also the remnant of it is eaten;
Numbers 15:3 (YLT)
3 then ye have prepared a fire-offering to Jehovah, a burnt-offering, or a sacrifice, at separating
a vow or free-will-offering, or in your appointed things, to make a sweet fragrance to Jehovah, out of the herd, or out of the flock.
Numbers 29:39 (YLT)
39 `These ye prepare to Jehovah in your appointed seasons, apart from your vows, and your
free-will offerings, for your burnt-offerings, and for your presents, and for your libations, and for your peace-offerings.'
Deuteronomy 12:6 (YLT)
6 and hast brought in thither your burnt-offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and the
heave-offering of your hand, and your vows, and your free-will offerings, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock;
Deuteronomy 12:17 (YLT)
17 thou art not able to eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, and of thy new wine, and thine
oil, and the firstlings of thy herd and of thy flock, and any of thy vows which thou vowest, and thy free-will offerings, and heave-offering of thy hand;
Deuteronomy 16:10 (YLT)
10 and thou hast made the feast of weeks to Jehovah thy God, a tribute of a free-will offering of
thy hand, which thou dost give, as Jehovah thy God doth bless thee.
Deuteronomy 23:23 (YLT)
23 The produce of thy lips thou dost keep, and hast done it, as thou hast vowed to Jehovah thy
God; a free-will-offering, which thou hast spoken with thy mouth.
Ezra 1:4 (YLT)
4 `And every one who is left, of any of the places where he is a sojourner, assist him do the men
of his place with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, along with a free-will
offering for the house of God, that is in Jerusalem.'
Ezra 7:16 (YLT)
16 and all the silver and gold that thou findest in all the province of Babylon, with the free-will
offerings of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly, for the house of their God that is in
Jerusalem,
Psalm 54:6 (YLT)
6 With a free will-offering I sacrifice to Thee, I thank Thy name, O Jehovah, for it is good, Psalm 68:9 (YLT)
9 A shower of free-will gifts thou shakest out, O God. Thine inheritance, when it hath been
weary, Thou hast established it.
Psalm 110:3 (YLT)
3 Thy people are free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the
womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psalm 119:108 (YLT)
108 Free-will-offerings of my mouth, Accept, I pray Thee, O Jehovah, And Thy judgments
teach Thou me.
Ezekiel 46:12 (YLT)
12 And when the prince maketh a free-will burnt-offering, or free-will peace-offerings, to
Jehovah, then he hath opened for himself the gate that is looking eastward, and he hath made his burnt-offering and his peace-offerings as he doth in the day of rest, and he hath gone out, and he hath shut the gate after his going out.
Philemon 1:14 (NASB)
14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be,
in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
Philemon 1:14 (HCSB)
14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be
out of obligation, but of your own free will.
Deuteronomy 18:6 (NET1)
6 Suppose a Levite comes by his own free will[9] from one of your villages, from any part of
Israel where he is living,[10] to the place the LORD chooses
John 10:18 (NET1)
18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down[45] of my own free will.[46] I have the authority[47] to lay it down, and I have the authority[48] to take it back again. This commandment[49] I received from my Father.”
civic
Well-known member
Yes we are not puppets with a puppet master pulling our strings
Ah but if you were still Calvinist you would have to essentially affirm that even while denying it.
