An Article on free will

[TedT]

So when you choose not to murder someone, that choice is tainted by your enslavement to sin in rebellion to God? Interesting. Interesting but wrong.

Yes, of course, if it was not done to magnify GOD's righteousness and justice but only due to a fear of punishment by the courts and a loss of public esteem for you and your family, etc.

 

[TedT]

OSAS

Since being saved is a complicated idea, I prefer OEAE, once elect, always elect, since it is election which brings the promise of our salvation to us.

 

[Johann]

Since being saved is a complicated idea, I prefer OEAE, once elect, always elect, since it is election which brings the promise of our salvation to us.

Nothing "complicated"

GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)

 ● Acts 15:11; 16:31

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● Philippians 2:12

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.

SPECIAL TOPIC: FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST

https://freebiblecommentary.org/spe...#:~:text=GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Johann.

 

[TedT]

if it is not free. it is bound by some external force.. and if God is that force. well. God is not very good God is he?

some external force...you mean like our enslavement to sin, perhaps? And if GOD goes against our choices such as to save us by grace, not by our own choice, HE is NOT being a bad God because HE is NOT going against our free will but is only going against our enslaved will !!

We became sinners by our free will.
By becoming sinners our will became enslaved to sinfulness, unable to make any truly righteous decision.
We regain our free will by being reborn.
We become sanctified so we only use our free will for righteous decisions by chastisement which teaches us the consequences of living with sin.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Since being saved is a complicated idea, I prefer OEAE, once elect, always elect, since it is election which brings the promise of our salvation to us.

I prefer scripture words

eternal life. as apposed to conditional life
Never perish as apposed to might never perish

eternal security if anything is the term I would use

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

some external force...you mean like our enslavement to sin, perhaps? A

you still have a choice.

Paul commended the gentiles who did not have the law. but still kept the law.. They chose to do good.. as apposed to the jew, who had the law. and chose to break it.

nd if GOD goes against our choices such as to save us by grace, not by our own choice, HE is NOT being a bad God because HE is NOT going against our free will but is only going against our enslaved will !!

This only works if God does it for everyone.

If he does not give anyone an opportunity to say yes lord. or no lord.. then he not only is forcing them to not believe, but in making a choice for those who do believe, he technically forced them

We became sinners by our free will.

Actually I was born a sinner, in adam all die..

By becoming sinners our will became enslaved to sinfulness, unable to make any truly righteous decision.

Again, I was born this way

We regain our free will by being reborn.

We never lost our free will

We become sanctified so we only use our free will for righteous decisions by chastisement which teaches us the consequences of living with sin.

we must be justified first. We are justified by grace through faith. not of ourselves.

God does not make anyone born again while still under the penalty of sin. That would go against his perfect justice.

 

[TedT]

God said I was predestined before time..

Your interpretation of GOD's word that people are predestined before time to salvation ALSO implies that the reprobate were condemned before time to hell, a denigration of HIS loving kindness, righteousness and justice I must contend against.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Your interpretation of GOD's word that people are predestined before time to salvation ALSO implies that the reprobate were condemned before time to hell, a denigration of HIS loving kindness, righteousness and justice I must contend against.

no not really

Because they were offered salvation, there name was written,, but their name is blotted out

they had every chance..

 

[Johann]

no not really

Because they were offered salvation, there name was written,, but their name is blotted out

they had every chance..

Not according to the Greek text, grammar and morphology.

J.

 

[TedT]

I prefer scripture words

eternal life. as apposed to conditional life
Never perish as apposed to might never perish

eternal security if anything is the term I would use

Election, being chosen by GOD, is a good biblical word...

 

[TedT]

you still have a choice.

If you are bound by sin and can't choose righteousness, then your choice is not free...so being able to choose does NOT prove we have a free will.

 

[Johann]

Election, being chosen by GOD, is a good biblical word...

Isaiah 42:1 (LXX & Hebrew)

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles."

And all those INTO/eis Messiah are all the elect ones.

J.

 

[MTMattie]

If you are bound by sin and can't choose righteousness, then your choice is not free...so being able to choose does NOT prove we have a free will.

?
so being able to choose does NOT prove we have a free will.

What does it prove, then?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Not according to the Greek text, grammar and morphology.

J.

do share

don;t just say this, show me how.. what does the greek say

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Election, being chosen by GOD, is a good biblical word...

but election is a word that is confusing and thought of differnt by so many

Just use simple words that can not be confused with other words

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If you are bound by sin and can't choose righteousness,

I am not bound to sin, if I was, I could never obey any command or ever do a good deed. Non believers do good deeds all the time..

then your choice is not free...so being able to choose does NOT prove we have a free will.

lol. if I can chose. I have free will

Your stuck also in Calvinistic belief and can not see reality

 

[Jim]

Yes, of course, if it was not done to magnify GOD's righteousness and justice but only due to a fear of punishment by the courts and a loss of public esteem for you and your family, etc.

Absolute nonsense.

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. 17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God

 

[TedT]

This only works if God does it for everyone.

Not at all...not all sinners are the same before GOD.

The reprobate by their free will chose to put their faith in the lie that YHWH's claims to be our GOD and our only saviour from sin were lies, proving he was a false god.

By rebuking HIM as their saviour, they chose by their free will to never let HIM interfere with their choices ever. Since a free will decision must be sacrosanct and inviolable or it can't be called free, they essentially locked themselves out of any plan for their redemption.

By choosing to rebuke HIM as a false god, they became sinful and enslaved to sin therefore unable to make a righteous decision to change their minds and so save themselves. They knowingly doomed themselves if YHWH were to ever prove HE was indeed our creator GOD, choosing hell over living under HIM as their LORD. Alas, their commitment to the lie damned them.

Elect sinners put their faith in HIS claims to be our GOD and savior from sin before they ever chose to go astray into sin. By this acceptance of HIS LORDship, they gave HIM permission to save them from their enslavement to sin by any means possible. By their faith in HIM they became HIS chosen, HIS sheep, the people of HIS kingdom, HIS Bride. The election promise of their salvation from any and all sin will be fulfilled for any elect who later rebelled against HIS command.

By their own free will choice the reprobate cannot be saved against their will.

By their faith in HIM the elect who later choose to become sinful in HIS sight, will all be saved and sanctified sooner or later even against their enslaved will. To facilitate this process, the sinful elect must live with the condemned reprobate until the last sinful elect fully repents: Matt 13:28...So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

Two different types of sinners sown into mankind to achieve HIS purpose of the fulfillment of HIS election promise in HIS elect. One type never condemned for their sins, the other condemned already:
Berean Standard Bible
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Not at all...not all sinners are the same before GOD.

lol. wow. now thats out there

for ALL have sinned and fall short..

The reprobate by their free will chose to put their faith in the lie that YHWH's claims to be our GOD and our only saviour from sin were lies, proving he was a false god.

By rebuking HIM as their saviour, they chose by their free will to never let HIM interfere with their choices ever. Since a free will decision must be sacrosanct and inviolable or it can't be called free, they essentially locked themselves out of any plan for their redemption.

By choosing to rebuke HIM as a false god, they became sinful and enslaved to sin therefore unable to make a righteous decision to change their minds and so save themselves. They knowingly doomed themselves if YHWH were to ever prove HE was indeed our creator GOD, choosing hell over living under HIM as their LORD. Alas, their commitment to the lie damned them.

Elect sinners put their faith in HIS claims to be our GOD and savior from sin before they ever chose to go astray into sin. By this acceptance of HIS LORDship, they gave HIM permission to save them from their enslavement to sin by any means possible. By their faith in HIM they became HIS chosen, HIS sheep, the people of HIS kingdom, HIS Bride. The election promise of their salvation from any and all sin will be fulfilled for any elect who later rebelled against HIS command.

By their own free will choice the reprobate cannot be saved against their will.

By their faith in HIM the elect who later choose to become sinful in HIS sight, will all be saved and sanctified sooner or later even against their enslaved will. To facilitate this process, the sinful elect must live with the condemned reprobate until the last sinful elect fully repents: Matt 13:28...So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

Two different types of sinners sown into mankind to achieve HIS purpose of the fulfillment of HIS election promise in HIS elect. One type never condemned for their sins, the other condemned already:
Berean Standard Bible
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

The elect did the same thing..

the only difference is according to fatalism. God overruled their lack of faith and caused them to believe. while refusing to allow the others to believe.

Your belief gives God a bad name.. and pumps yourself up as special since God chose you and not the person next to you

you can deny it. But reality is reality

grace teaches that God drew them to himself. and showed himself to them. and they did not resist to the end. and they chose to recieve him.. while the lost continues to not believe no matter how much evidence is shown to them

 

[Johann]

do share

don;t just say this, show me how.. what does the greek say

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,---

Are you suggesting these believers can become "unsealed" later @Eternally-Grateful?

Johann.