An Article on free will

lol

dude once more time

HUMBLE YOURSELF
Who do you think you are? The Pope? I will not recant what James wrote concerning our justification before God, faith, and good works.
You accused me multiple times of saying or believing things I do not believe (you attempted to put me in a calvinist mode)

I did not lose the debate, there was no debate. Because you have a mindset that I am calvinist. so their is no debate.
I think of you much much more as a Pope of your anti-James beliefs.
Until you open up. there is no debate..
Until you truly believe what James (and Paul) wrote, this debate is over.
 
Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
This is a good study-we can have a good, edifying conversation later @Selah.

God bless.

Johann.
Yes. It’ll be a doozy for sure.

Perhaps your study will include an accurate translation of the Greek, in which the word "after" is absent from Ephesians 1:13, such as:
In Him you also, having heard the Word of the Truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit

The crux of your free-willian philosophy point is "notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior", but the Truth (John 14:6) is Ephesians 1:13 starts out with us Christians being in Christ, so God chooses us children of God every step of the Way (John 14:6) without us children of God doing any choosing thus we are entirely dependent upon our Holy God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

To God be the glory, always and forever!
 

Bible & Theology

Do Paul and James Disagree on Justification by Faith Alone?

April 21, 2017 | Thomas Schreiner

©Lightstock
SharePostEmail

Critics of the slogan “faith alone” often point out that Scripture only speaks once about whether we are justified by faith alone—and that text denies it: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, CSB).

What does James mean in saying we are justified by works?


I won’t defend the truth of justification by faith alone in detail, but it’s clearly taught, for example, in Romans 3:28: “A person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” Or, as Paul teaches in Romans 4:5, “God justifies the ungodly.” Both Abraham and David were justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 4:1–8; Gal. 3:6–9).

Salvation, as Paul elsewhere demonstrates, is “by grace” and “through faith” (Eph. 2:8–9). Works are excluded as the basis of salvation—otherwise people could boast about what they have done. Salvation by grace through faith highlights the amazing and comforting truth that salvation is the Lord’s work, not ours.

But does Paul contradict James?

Justification by Works in James

James 2:14–26 repeatedly argues that faith without works doesn’t save on the last day. Those who claim to have faith but lack good works aren’t saved by such a claiming faith (Jas. 2:14). James compares such faith to “words of love and comfort” given to someone who is cold and hungry. Such words are meaningless if not accompanied by actions to feed and clothe the person in need (2:15–16). So also, faith without works is “dead” and “useless” (2:17, 20, 26).

Faith that is merely intellectual, or faith that claims to believe but is bereft of any action, is no better than “the faith” of demons. After all, they subscribe to the orthodox belief that “God is one,” and they “shudder” in terror (2:19). James highlights that Abraham was “justified by works” in offering up Isaac (2:21), and Rahab the prostitute was “justified by works” in receiving the spies and protecting them from danger (2:25).

Intellectual Belief Doesn’t Save

At first glance, it might seem James rejects justification by faith alone, but first glances aren’t enough when reading the Scriptures. We are called to read deeply and canonically. James doesn’t deny that faith saves; he rejects the notion that a particular kind of faith saves—a faith that doesn’t produce works. In short, faith that is merely intellectual assent is not saving faith.

Again, demons professed that Jesus is “the Holy One of God” (Mark 1:24), but their belief in that truth didn’t save them. Even though they knew who Jesus was, they hated him. Saving faith, then, is the act of the entire person. It includes the will and the emotions, such that those who believe in Jesus give themselves to him.

Not the Foundation

Let’s think of it another way. Faith alone justifies, but only the kind of faith that inevitably produces good works. Now, such good works aren’t the basis of justification; indeed, they can’t be, for one sin makes you a lawbreaker (Jas. 2:10–11). Good works can’t function as the foundation of our justification because God demands perfection, and even after we are converted we continue to sin.
Lightstock


James, in fact, says this very thing in the next passage after discussing justification by works: “We all stumble in many ways” (3:2). The word “stumble” means “sin,” as the parallel text in James 2:10 shows. Every one of us without exception—including James (“we all”)—continue to sin.

Is he saying we sin only occasionally? Absolutely not. He says we all sin “in many ways.” We don’t just sin in a few ways, but in many. Since sin continues to characterize the lives of believers in remarkable ways, and since God demands perfection, works that justify can’t form the basis of our justification.

Fruit, Not Root

How should we understand the works James requires? Certainly good works are necessary, for without them we will not be justified, but we have seen that they aren’t the necessary basis or foundation.

The best solution is to say they are the result and fruit of faith. True faith expresses it in works. Paul actually says the same thing, teaching what ultimately matters is “faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, NIV).

The concept isn’t hard to understand. If I said the room you were in was about to blow up in one minute, and you believed me, desired to live, and were physically able to leave, you would hurry to exit. True faith would lead to works! Leaving the room would be the result of your faith. So it’s right to say, as the Reformers did, that we are justified by faith alone, but that true faith is never alone. I would suggest James is teaching this very idea.

It isn’t as if our works save or justify in the sense that they qualify us to enter God’s presence—as if our virtue wins us God’s favor on the last day. James teaches that there is an organic relationship between genuine faith and works. If we truly trust Christ, that trust shows up in how we live. Works evidence our faith.

Complementary Truths

Why do Paul and James sound so different? Why does it appear at first glance they contradict? We need to remember that letters were written to specific situations facing specific churches. Paul wrote to churches where people were tempted to trust in their works for salvation, while James wrote to those who were disposed to think intellectual assent could save them.

Paul counteracts legalism, while James corrects antinomianism.

Of course, Paul rejected antinomianism as well: “I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:21). He also believed good works were necessary for eternal life, but both Paul and James believed such works were the fruit of saving faith, not the root.

In the beauty and completeness of God’s Word, Paul and James teach complementary, not contradictory, truths.
 
Perhaps your study will include an accurate translation of the Greek, in which the word "after" is absent from Ephesians 1:13, such as:
In Him you also, having heard the Word of the Truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit

The crux of your free-willian philosophy point is "notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior", but the Truth (John 14:6) is Ephesians 1:13 starts out with us Christians being in Christ, so God chooses us children of God every step of the Way (John 14:6) without us children of God doing any choosing thus we are entirely dependent upon our Holy God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

To God be the glory, always and forever!
@Kermos, brother, I don't know what to do, what prompted you to write this? The Holy Spirit?

Eph 1:13 in ἐν whom ᾧ you ὑμεῖς, also, καὶ having heard ἀκούσαντες the τὸν word λόγον - τῆς of truth, ἀληθείας, the τὸ gospel εὐαγγέλιον your ὑμῶν, of τῆς salvation, σωτηρίας in ἐν whom also καὶ having believed πιστεύσαντες you were sealed ἐσφραγίσθητε with τῷ the τῷ Holy Ἁγίῳ, Spirit Πνεύματι - τῆς of promise, ἐπαγγελίας
Eph 1:14 who ὅ* is ἐστιν [the] guarantee ἀρραβὼν of our ἡμῶν, - τῆς inheritance κληρονομίας to εἰς [the] redemption ἀπολύτρωσιν of the τῆς acquired possession, περιποιήσεως, to εἰς [the] praise ἔπαινον of τῆς His αὐτοῦ. glory. δόξης

Ephesians 1:13 (Interlinear Format)

Greek Word Transliteration Morphology English Translation Syntactical Role
ἐν en Preposition in Prepositional phrase
ᾧ hō Relative Pronoun, Dative Singular Masculine whom Relative clause
καὶ kai Conjunction also Coordinating conjunction
ὑμεῖς hymeis Personal Pronoun, Nominative Plural you Subject
ἀκούσαντες akousantes Aorist Participle, Active, Nominative Plural Masculine having heard Adverbial participle (temporal)
τὸν λόγον ton logon Definite Article + Noun, Accusative Singular Masculine the word Direct object
τῆς ἀληθείας tēs alētheias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of truth Genitive of description
τὸ to Definite Article, Accusative Singular Neuter the Article (specifying)
εὐαγγέλιον euangelion Noun, Accusative Singular Neuter gospel Apposition to "word"
τῆς σωτηρίας tēs sōtērias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of salvation Genitive of possession
ἐν en Preposition in Prepositional phrase
ᾧ hō Relative Pronoun, Dative Singular Masculine whom Relative clause
καὶ kai Conjunction also Coordinating conjunction
πιστεύσαντες pisteusantes Aorist Participle, Active, Nominative Plural Masculine having believed Adverbial participle (temporal)
ἐσφραγίσθητε esphragisthēte Aorist Indicative, Passive, 2nd Person Plural you were sealed Main verb (indicative)
τῷ tō Definite Article, Dative Singular Neuter with the Article (instrumental)
Πνεύματι Pneumati Noun, Dative Singular Neuter Spirit Dative of means
τῆς ἐπαγγελίας tēs epangelias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of promise Genitive of description


"In whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation—in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."


The verse is structured around two key participial phrases:

"having heard" (ἀκούσαντες)

"having believed" (πιστεύσαντες)
These participles are temporal and describe actions that occurred before the sealing.

The main verb is "you were sealed" (ἐσφραγίσθητε), an aorist passive indicative, indicating a completed action initiated by God.

The instrumental dative ("with the Holy Spirit") shows the means by which the sealing occurred.

The phrase "of promise" (τῆς ἐπαγγελίας) functions as a genitive of description, emphasizing that the Holy Spirit fulfills God's promise.



Synergism right there.

J.
 
Last edited:
@MTMattie

Critics of the slogan “faith alone” often point out that Scripture only speaks once about whether we are justified by faith alone—and that text denies it: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, CSB).
That is a fact. There is no denying that. The case can easily be closed with this statement but "Faith Alone" people will persist on denying this fact against all odds.
What does James mean in saying we are justified by works?

I won’t defend the truth of justification by faith alone in detail, but it’s clearly taught, for example, in Romans 3:28: “A person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” Or, as Paul teaches in Romans 4:5, “God justifies the ungodly.” Both Abraham and David were justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 4:1–8; Gal. 3:6–9).
Works of the Law are not faithful good works. This Author is conflating works of the Law with good works and making a mess of things.
Salvation, as Paul elsewhere demonstrates, is “by grace” and “through faith” (Eph. 2:8–9). Works are excluded as the basis of salvation—otherwise people could boast about what they have done. Salvation by grace through faith highlights the amazing and comforting truth that salvation is the Lord’s work, not ours.
It's works of the Law that are excluded. On the other hand, James 2:24 includes good works as part of our Justification, and Justification is undeniably connected to our Salvation.
But does Paul contradict James?
No contradiction. James is taking about good works whereas Paul was talking works of the Law in Rom 3 & 4.

Justification by Works in James

James 2:14–26 repeatedly argues that faith without works doesn’t save on the last day. Those who claim to have faith but lack good works aren’t saved by such a claiming faith (Jas. 2:14). James compares such faith to “words of love and comfort” given to someone who is cold and hungry. Such words are meaningless if not accompanied by actions to feed and clothe the person in need (2:15–16). So also, faith without works is “dead” and “useless” (2:17, 20, 26).

Faith that is merely intellectual, or faith that claims to believe but is bereft of any action, is no better than “the faith” of demons. After all, they subscribe to the orthodox belief that “God is one,” and they “shudder” in terror (2:19). James highlights that Abraham was “justified by works” in offering up Isaac (2:21), and Rahab the prostitute was “justified by works” in receiving the spies and protecting them from danger (2:25).

Intellectual Belief Doesn’t Save

At first glance, it might seem James rejects justification by faith alone, but first glances aren’t enough when reading the Scriptures. We are called to read deeply and canonically. James doesn’t deny that faith saves; he rejects the notion that a particular kind of faith saves—a faith that doesn’t produce works. In short, faith that is merely intellectual assent is not saving faith.

Again, demons professed that Jesus is “the Holy One of God” (Mark 1:24), but their belief in that truth didn’t save them. Even though they knew who Jesus was, they hated him. Saving faith, then, is the act of the entire person. It includes the will and the emotions, such that those who believe in Jesus give themselves to him.

Not the Foundation

Let’s think of it another way. Faith alone justifies, but only the kind of faith that inevitably produces good works. Now, such good works aren’t the basis of justification; indeed, they can’t be, for one sin makes you a lawbreaker (Jas. 2:10–11). Good works can’t function as the foundation of our justification because God demands perfection, and even after we are converted we continue to sin.
Lightstock



James, in fact, says this very thing in the next passage after discussing justification by works: “We all stumble in many ways” (3:2). The word “stumble” means “sin,” as the parallel text in James 2:10 shows. Every one of us without exception—including James (“we all”)—continue to sin.

Is he saying we sin only occasionally? Absolutely not. He says we all sin “in many ways.” We don’t just sin in a few ways, but in many. Since sin continues to characterize the lives of believers in remarkable ways, and since God demands perfection, works that justify can’t form the basis of our justification.

Fruit, Not Root​

How should we understand the works James requires? Certainly good works are necessary, for without them we will not be justified, but we have seen that they aren’t the necessary basis or foundation.

The best solution is to say they are the result and fruit of faith. True faith expresses it in works. Paul actually says the same thing, teaching what ultimately matters is “faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, NIV).

The concept isn’t hard to understand. If I said the room you were in was about to blow up in one minute, and you believed me, desired to live, and were physically able to leave, you would hurry to exit. True faith would lead to works! Leaving the room would be the result of your faith. So it’s right to say, as the Reformers did, that we are justified by faith alone, but that true faith is never alone. I would suggest James is teaching this very idea.
"Alone" and "never alone" at the same time? This contradicts logic. Something cannot be true and not true at the same time.
It isn’t as if our works save or justify in the sense that they qualify us to enter God’s presence—as if our virtue wins us God’s favor on the last day. James teaches that there is an organic relationship between genuine faith and works. If we truly trust Christ, that trust shows up in how we live. Works evidence our faith.
More than that, good works gives life to our faith.

Complementary Truths

Why do Paul and James sound so different?
They only sound different to those who conflate works of the Law with faithful good works.
Why does it appear at first glance they contradict? We need to remember that letters were written to specific situations facing specific churches. Paul wrote to churches where people were tempted to trust in their works for salvation, while James wrote to those who were disposed to think intellectual assent could save them.

Paul counteracts legalism, while James corrects antinomianism.
Totally false. The opposite is true. It was Greeks and Romans who were tempted to trust in their intellectual philosophical rational.assent and it was Israelites who were tempted to trust in their works of the Law.
Of course, Paul rejected antinomianism as well: “I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:21). He also believed good works were necessary for eternal life, but both Paul and James believed such works were the fruit of saving faith, not the root.

In the beauty and completeness of God’s Word, Paul and James teach complementary, not contradictory, truths
Our understanding of God's word gets distorted when people conflate works of the Law with faithful good works.
 
Back
Top Bottom