An Article on free will

[Eternally-Grateful]

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,---

Are you suggesting these believers can become "unsealed" later @Eternally-Grateful?

Johann.

continue the passage

14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The seal lasts until the day of redemption or resurrection day. It can not be broken

 

[Johann]

continue the passage

14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The seal lasts until the day of redemption or resurrection day. It can not be broken

Thank you for this thoughtful response brother, you had me worried there for a sec.

Johann.

 

[Selah]

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,---

Are you suggesting these believers can become "unsealed" later @Eternally-Grateful?

Johann.

Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Johann]

Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This is a good study-we can have a good, edifying conversation later @Selah.

God bless.

Johann.

 

[Selah]

This is a good study-we can have a good, edifying conversation later @Selah.

God bless.

Johann.

Yes. It’ll be a doozy for sure.

 

[synergy]

Well i carry mine, everyone I know does.

So you now agree that we should be obedient to do certain works such as carrying our cross. You are beginning to see that your anathema against works is embarrassing yourself in front of the Bible.

thats not the problem
the problem is those tryign to add their works of righteousness to the gospel of grace. nullifying grace
the jew added circumcision. do you think your any better than the jew?
Paul called them fools, he said they should be anathema.. what makes you better than them?

Between James promoting Abraham’s justifying works and your despising of “works of righteousness”, I will side with the Apostle.

no. you see, Like james, you have a faulty view

You dare to say that James has a faulty view??? You can say that I have a faulty view and we can debate that but for you to say that James has a faulty view is for you to stoop lower than vermin.

Read the passage,
it is impossible.
what is impossible?
If they fall away, to renew them to repentance.
It is clear in the passage, the people Hebrews was written to wanted to Go back to law. In the law. You sin, you fall away, You give sacrifice, you are renewed to repentance and resaved until you sin again.

The author is clear. If you fall away (if it were possible, which it is not) you could never get resaved.

This destroys nosas.. and your saved, not saved, saved, not saved roller coaster

Where is the law even mentioned in Heb 6:4-6??? With all due respect, you must book your eye examination appointment as soon as possible.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you now agree that we should be obedient to do certain works such as carrying our cross. You are beginning to see that your anathema against works is embarrassing yourself in front of the Bible.

I never denied works

But you can;t hear what I am saying, because your stuck on trying to prove me wrong

once again, I am against works that merit salvation.. it is a false gospel. and should be anathema

Between James promoting Abraham’s justifying works and your despising of “works of righteousness”, I will side with the Apostle.

Here you go with your false accusations again.

dude. You are not reasonable. and have no argument, you keep putting your foot in your mouth by proving your not hearing a word I said.

typical legalistic mindset

You dare to say that James has a faulty view??? You can say that I have a faulty view and we can debate that but for you to say that James has a faulty view is for you to stoop lower than vermin.

Where is the law even mentioned in Heb 6:4-6??? With all due respect, you must book your eye examination appointment as soon as possible.

James did not have a FULTY VIEW

AGAIN, YOU DO

JAMES SAID THEY HAD ZERO WORKS

YOU CLAIM THEY WERE SAVED WITHOUT TRULY REPENTING.

NEXT..

(you should seriously give up)

 

[synergy]

lol. this is called fishing
Not playing your game..

So you can’t prove that you were “predestined before time began”. I see. That proves that you’re just blowing smoke, as usual. That’s no surprise to me.

God said I was predestined before time..

God said that Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Show us the proof of your claim you believed.

I will trust God. not someone who does not even trust the cross is sufficient to save a person completely

The Atonement is complete and there's nothing more that needs to be added to the Atonement. This is just more strawmen from you.

Yes. and you failed to prove your point

the wage of sin is death, Not your good works..

Who said that the wage of sin is good works? Your strawmen are getting weirder and weirder.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Again, show me where ANYTHING other than faith is required in this passage.

It is of faith. that it might be of grace.

it does not say it is of faith plus works.

Faith minus anything equals faith alone

Keep resisting.. All your doing is proving to me I am on the right track.

That’s on you to prove your “faith alone” and “minus works” ideas. I’m not going to do your work for you.

No..

No what? That you refuse to acknowledge that James 2:24 declares how we’re justified by God? First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Now you won’t acknowledge what he wrote. What’s next?

lol. I agree with James

So you do believe James when he said that we are justified by God by both faith and good works. That's exactly what I believe also. Excellent! Case closed!

 

[synergy]

I am laughing at you my friend.
Because you are funny..

The subject is Rom 10:17, not me. So your laughter is about Rom 10:17. That verse nor any other Bible verse should never be laughed at.

It is the work of God we believe
I do not take credit. I give it to God
if thats a bad thing, forgive me
Not of works lest anyone should boast. You want to boast. feel free. count me out eternity is too long

It is the work of God we believe: Thank you for proving synergy by mentioning “work of God” and “we believe” all in one sentence.

Yet you keep pushing works.

James is pushing good works. So I follow him. First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Then you won’t acknowledge what James wrote. Now you hate the fact that I follow what James preaches. You forget that James is an Apostle of Christ with no faulty view, who should be acknowledged, and should be followed.

Your the one with the strawman, it is all of grace. but it must be merited by works..
Grace plus works = works.. Paul was clear on this

You flip the subject to grace whenever you're losing ground in your argument which is often.

You are boasting in your faith, your works. how you do good deeds. while others do not

I'm not boasting in anything.

Thats what legalists do. they boast. or they judge others.

its bad enough you claim you preach grace not works. yet works is your foundation.

now you say youi do not boast. when its all you do. Boast of your knowledge, Boast of your faith, and boast of your works

There you go again dreaming up strawmen, projecting your failures, and misrepresenting others. You must really enjoy doing that.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The subject is Rom 10:17, not me. So your laughter is about Rom 10:17. That verse nor any other Bible verse should never be laughed at.

It is the work of God we believe: Thank you for proving synergy by mentioning “work of God” and “we believe” all in one sentence.

James is pushing good works. So I follow him. First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Then you won’t acknowledge what James wrote. Now you hate the fact that I follow what James preaches. You forget that James is an Apostle of Christ with no faulty view, who should be acknowledged, and should be followed.

You flip the subject to grace whenever you're losing ground in your argument which is often.

I'm not boasting in anything.

There you go again dreaming up strawmen, projecting your failures, and misrepresenting others. You must really enjoy doing that.

no, the subect is merit based salvation.

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word (roma 10: 7) Amen, I have stated this since I came into this chat room.. sadly you are blind to the fact I believe this

So your still lost. you still are trying to pit me as a calvinist.

news flash. I reject calvinism, I reject fatalism. I reject TULIP and I reject legalism.

I am against all things that make my God look bad.

but hey keep talking. I will continue to expose you for what you are..

 

[Johann]

So you can’t prove that you were “predestined before time began”. I see. That proves that you’re just blowing smoke, as usual. That’s no surprise to me.

God said that Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Show us the proof of your claim you believed.

The Atonement is complete and there's nothing more that needs to be added to the Atonement. This is just more strawmen from you.

Who said that the wage of sin is good works? Your strawmen are getting weirder and weirder.

That’s on you to prove your “faith alone” and “minus works” ideas. I’m not going to do your work for you.

No what? That you refuse to acknowledge that James 2:24 declares how we’re justified by God? First you dared to say that James has a faulty view. Now you won’t acknowledge what he wrote. What’s next?

So you do believe James when he said that we are justified by God by both faith and good works. That's exactly what I believe also. Excellent! Case closed!

@synergy

James 2:21–24
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

James 2:21–24 KJV
This is the most direct text that uses the phrase “justified by works”, while not denying faith, but showing works as the demonstration of true faith.

Galatians 5:6
“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;
but faith which worketh by love.”

This shows that true justifying faith is not idle, but active—it expresses itself through love, which is visible in deeds.

Romans 2:6–7, 13
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life...”

“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”

Though Paul emphasizes faith throughout Romans, this section affirms a future judgment “according to works”—not as meritorious, but as a manifestation of authentic faith.

Matthew 12:36–37
“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”

Jesus indicates that one’s speech (a form of work) will factor into justification or condemnation—again pointing to a faith that is manifested outwardly.

Revelation 19:8
“And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.”

While salvation is by grace, the final glorification of the bride includes a picture of her clothed in righteous acts, indicating that works follow and accompany true faith.

Shalom brother.

J.

 

[synergy]

aww poor Guy, I know the truth hurts.

Just because the Bible exposes your falsehoods should not cause you to stigmatize others.

lol.. see here is your issue
The reality is, no one saved themselves period. By themself or not..
Your saved by God. not God plus you

So you with your faith cannot save yourself??? You are contradicting scripture again.

Mat_9:22 But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour.

Luk_7:50 And He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you, go in peace.

Luk_8:48 And He said to her, Daughter, be comforted. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, Receive your sight! Your faith has saved you.

Rom_10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

I believe Jesus, He who believes will never perish, but live forever. (john 3) He who believes has passed from death to life and will not come to condemnation, (john 5) He who believes will never be lost. and Jesus will raise us on the last day (john 6)

I believe paul. I was saved by grace period. But God will not force it on me, I must receive it in faith. (eph 2) Not by good deeds I have done (works) by by His mercy God saved me (a completed action (Titus 3) If it is grace it is no longer of works otherwise grace is no longer grace (grace plus works - works) romans 11. After I here the word of truth, and having believed, I am sealed by the spirit until redemtpion day (not until I fall away)

Abraham was justified in Gen 15. The work James spoke of was in Gen 22. decades after he was declaired righteous..

So you can't bring yourself to explicitly say that you believe James? Let’s list out what you have against James:

1. You dared to say that James has a faulty view.
2. You won’t acknowledge what James wrote.
3. You hate the fact that I follow what James preaches.
4. You explicitly believe Jesus and Paul but not James.

Man, you have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Just because the Bible exposes your falsehoods should not cause you to stigmatize others.

So you with your faith cannot save yourself??? You are contradicting scripture again.

Mat_9:22 But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour.

Luk_7:50 And He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you, go in peace.

Luk_8:48 And He said to her, Daughter, be comforted. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, Receive your sight! Your faith has saved you.

Rom_10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

So you can't bring yourself to explicitly say that you believe James? Let’s list out what you have against James:

1. You dared to say that James has a faulty view.
2. You won’t acknowledge what James wrote.
3. You hate the fact that I follow what James preaches.
4. You explicitly believe Jesus and Paul but not James.

Man, you have it out for James I see. It's a given that whoever is against an Apostle he has lost the debate.

dude.

You have proven you do not even know what I believe.

do me a favor. humble yourself. and come back to me when your ready to talk the word and what I actually believe. and not your preconcieved notion of what you think I believe

because until then, you just keep putting your foot in your mouth and acting a fool

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

Abraham believed in God. That was exceedingly more than simply believing that he would have many descendants.

Greetings Jim, I have no time at the moment but should later on today, and tomorrow to answer you in detail, for now, I will only said this:

Abraham's faith has nothing to do with his natural descendants, but the children of faith, the children of God's grace, which we see in such scriptures as:

Genesis 24:60​

“And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.”

Galatians 3:7​

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”

I got to go leaving for a trip out of town already late leaving.