An Article on free will

A Discourse About The Words "every one"" and "world"" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​


The first word of John 3:16 is a conjunction that inextricably ties John 3:14-15 to John 3:16, and here are the Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"
(John 3:14-16).
​

Lord Jesus brings in history by way of mentioning "the serpent in the wilderness"" John 3:14), so here is the contextually linked passage about history:

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.
(Numbers 21:8-9)
​

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness"" (John 3:14) and the results of the "bronze serpent" that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness"" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness"".
Furthermore, there is a different population of persons which includes persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness"".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16) with the first "population of bitten look to live" and there was the second "population of everyone else".

In the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).
  1. Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world"" (John 3:16).
  2. Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one"" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word πᾶς (Strong's 3956) translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous connotation of "whosoever"" [KJV] or "whoever"" [NASB]).
  3. Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing"" (John 3:16).
  4. Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life"" (John 3:16).

Jesus sets the relation between differing populations of persons by way of Him including the "the serpent in the wilderness"" (John 3:14, Numbers 21:9), so the "population of bitten look to live" directly corresponds with the word "world" as per Jesus' usage (John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world"" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Christ's use of "world" in John 3:16 is exactly the same population as the Christ's "every one believing".

The Christ's use of "every one believing" in John 3:16 is exactly the same population as the Christ's “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
Kermos said:
You adulterate the blessed Word of God as clearly delineated below in the traditions of civic (left side) because your heart puts believing (John 3:9-21) before being born of God (John 3:2-8). The pure milk of the Word of God is right on the right hand side!
The traditions of civicThe Word of God
2(9) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 3(10) Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 4(11) Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 5(12) If I told you earthly things and you do not cause yourself to believe, how will you cause yourself to believe if I tell you heavenly things? 6(13) No one has ascended into heaven except men who judge right in their own initiative to believe in Me and He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 7(14) As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness for the world including people outside of Israel, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 8(15) so that whoever is unborn of God choosing to believe will have [/u]born his dead self into[/u] eternal life.
9(16) For God so loved the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save from the wrath of God, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever, loving darkness instead of the Light, works to believe by him own initiative in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 10(17) For God did not send the Son into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save to judge the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save, but to save the world including all people everywhere in all time who I fail to save from the wrath of God through Him. 11(18) He who forced God to cause himself to be born again because of his self-willed believing in Him is not judged; he who does not choose to believe has been judged already, because he has not chosen to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 12(19) This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 13(20) For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 14(21) But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
15(2) this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 16(3) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is not born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
17(4) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 18(5) Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 19(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh and this evil flesh profits the flesh and this evil flesh pleases God, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit of no significance. 20(7) Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 21(8) The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know exactly where it comes from and exactly where it is going because your choosing of Me controls your becoming born of the Spirit; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(civic 3:2-21 (no longer the Word of God))		2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:2-21)
Your heart makes God's love for the world including Judas Iscariot miserably weak, ineffectual, and of no consequence.

You impose your free-will adulteration as a replacement for the Apostle John' Gospel thusly:
The Book of Free-williansThe Gospel of John
But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God.
(civic 1:9-13)		There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:9-13)
so your heart believes your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

Clearly, you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUE AND FAITHFUL ONE!!!
Click to expand...
satan quotes scripture just like you and misrepresents what God says just like he did in the garden. The old angel of light,

next
 
Kermos said:
You adulterate the blessed Word of God as clearly delineated below in the traditions of civic (left side) because your heart puts believing (John 3:9-21) before being born of God (John 3:2-8). The pure milk of the Word of God is right on the right hand side!
The traditions of civicThe Word of God
2(9) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 3(10) Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 4(11) Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 5(12) If I told you earthly things and you do not cause yourself to believe, how will you cause yourself to believe if I tell you heavenly things? 6(13) No one has ascended into heaven except men who judge right in their own initiative to believe in Me and He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 7(14) As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness for the world including people outside of Israel, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 8(15) so that whoever is unborn of God choosing to believe will have [/u]born his dead self into[/u] eternal life.
9(16) For God so loved the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save from the wrath of God, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever, loving darkness instead of the Light, works to believe by him own initiative in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 10(17) For God did not send the Son into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save to judge the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save, but to save the world including all people everywhere in all time who I fail to save from the wrath of God through Him. 11(18) He who forced God to cause himself to be born again because of his self-willed believing in Him is not judged; he who does not choose to believe has been judged already, because he has not chosen to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 12(19) This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 13(20) For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 14(21) But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
15(2) this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 16(3) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is not born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
17(4) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 18(5) Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 19(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh and this evil flesh profits the flesh and this evil flesh pleases God, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit of no significance. 20(7) Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 21(8) The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know exactly where it comes from and exactly where it is going because your choosing of Me controls your becoming born of the Spirit; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(civic 3:2-21 (no longer the Word of God))		2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:2-21)
Your heart makes God's love for the world including Judas Iscariot miserably weak, ineffectual, and of no consequence.

You impose your free-will adulteration as a replacement for the Apostle John' Gospel thusly:
The Book of Free-williansThe Gospel of John
But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God.
(civic 1:9-13)		There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:9-13)
so your heart believes your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

Clearly, you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUE AND FAITHFUL ONE!!
Click to expand...
You make God into an ogre who first imputes sin to one who has not sinned, then delights in preventing most of those to even hear of a cure for that sin and sending them to eternal condemnation. There is no other explanation for the creation of your non-freewill man.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its not wrong, you have been deceived to think so, yet its as clear as day, Faith is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: You deny the truth
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You are as one of those woke gender freaks who cannot quite get the hang of pronouns. The pronoun "that" [ Greek - τοῦτο] does not, cannot, refer back to the word faith. That would be like referring to your father as "she" and your mother as "he".
 
civic said:
As Jesus said to the Samaritan. You are in the same boat. Another jesus, another god, another gospel.

John 4:22- You worship what you do not know

Fatalism ( your beliefs )is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

hope this helps !!!
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I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6), so you calling me a follower of "Fstalism" (see your 3rd from closing paragraph starting with "lol") means that you are calling my Leader Jesus your wicked "fatal", a.k.a. "death", and no Christian applies death to Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ is Life!

The Word of God is absolute Truth (John 14:6)! I believe in Lord Jesus Christ!

The Apostle John enjoins us Christians "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Testing your spirit, in your post, you launch empty accusations devoid of any Word of God against this Christian who believes in the Christ. Your spirit must be tested more.

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
  • if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
  • if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
  • The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.
So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you demand your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.

King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you demand your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):

And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.
(Mark 7:34-35)
​
But you do not believe Christ does the wonders that He does, instead, you believe you open your own self-willed ears (2 Peter 2:9-10).

The blessed filling of the Holy Spirit occurs before Pentecost with "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:41), yet your anti-truth ABSENCE OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE PENTECOST is your ungodly preaching as recorded in
post #5,718.

Your spirit makes false thoughts against the Holy Spirit of the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
Jim said:
You are as one of those woke gender freaks who cannot quite get the hang of pronouns. The pronoun "that" [ Greek - τοῦτο] does not, cannot, refer back to the word faith. That would be like referring to your father as "she" and your mother as "he".
Click to expand...
Lol, its you who elevates works salvation, your flesh
 
Kermos said:
I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6), so you calling me a follower of "Fstalism" (see your 3rd from closing paragraph starting with "lol") means that you are calling my Leader Jesus your wicked "fatal", a.k.a. "death", and no Christian applies death to Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ is Life!

The Word of God is absolute Truth (John 14:6)! I believe in Lord Jesus Christ!

The Apostle John enjoins us Christians "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Testing your spirit, in your post, you launch empty accusations devoid of any Word of God against this Christian who believes in the Christ. Your spirit must be tested more.

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
  • if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
  • if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
  • The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.
So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you demand your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.

King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you demand your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):
​
And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.​
(Mark 7:34-35)​
​
But you do not believe Christ does the wonders that He does, instead, you believe you open your own self-willed ears (2 Peter 2:9-10).

The blessed filling of the Holy Spirit occurs before Pentecost with "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:41), yet your anti-truth ABSENCE OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE PENTECOST is your ungodly preaching as recorded in
post #5,718.

Your spirit makes false thoughts against the Holy Spirit of the Living God!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!
Click to expand...
you can say you believe all you want but you accuse many on the forum of being liars, being divisive, accusing the brethren,

you will know them by their fruits.

you do not demonstrate the fruit of the spirit with other believers.

you condemn them which is anti biblical, anti Spirit, anti- christ, anti love, anti-fellowship, anti-everything. A believer will build up others, not teat them down.

you demonstrate the deeds of the flesh in Galatians 5 not the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17;For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18;But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19;The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20;idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21;and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22;But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23;gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24;Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25;Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26;Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
 
civic said:
you can say you believe all you want but you accuse many on the forum of being liars, being divisive, accusing the brethren,
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I just want to point out that rebuke is a Biblical concept, better is open rebuke than hidden love, Prov. 27:5.

If he had the truth—he has every backing and right to rebuke those who come against Scripture.

He just doesn't have the truth.
 
civic said:
you can say you believe all you want but you accuse many on the forum of being liars, being divisive, accusing the brethren,

you will know them by their fruits.

you do not demonstrate the fruit of the spirit with other believers.

you condemn them which is anti biblical, anti Spirit, anti- christ, anti love, anti-fellowship, anti-everything. A believer will build up others, not teat them down.

you demonstrate the deeds of the flesh in Galatians 5 not the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17;For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18;But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19;The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20;idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21;and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22;But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23;gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24;Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25;Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26;Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Click to expand...

It is a requirement of our faith to clearly and purposely recognize when someone (no matter who they are) is "missing the mark" that set by Jesus Christ alone.
 
Dizerner said:
I just want to point out that rebuke is a Biblical concept, better is open rebuke than hidden love, Prov. 27:5.

If he had the truth—he has every backing and right to rebuke those who come against Scripture.

He just doesn't have the truth.
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except when its not on an essential. in the essentials unity, in the non essentials liberty and in all things charity.

there is no grace

Colossians 4:5-6- Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6;Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,

Ecclesiastes 10:12
The words of a wise man’s mouth are gracious, but the lips of a fool consume him.

And there are dozens of other passages that confirm the above.
 
civic said:
1 Pet 3:15= apologetics should be done respectfully.
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Apologetics is a defense of the faith. Arguing with those claiming to be faithful to Christ is a different story.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Peter is referencing those who know nothing about God.

When it comes to teaching saints, we rebuke those who will not listen.

I'm willing to listen to any argument to contrary but when someone claiming Christ teaches doctrine that disparages Jesus Christ in any way, I can't respect that belief at all.

I know the "retorts" already to what I just said.....

1. You can be respectful to the person and attack their beliefs.....

Sorry. There is no way to express respect to someone when you're rebuking them. We are what we believe. That is the very essence of faith. When what we believe is an offense to the Truth, then there is no respecting such a person themselves.

Jesus rebukes and chastens every son. That chastening isn't pleasant. However, afterwards... (when they change) it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

People should change. Change isn't easy.

Which is what is wrong with society today. People don't want to make enemies by telling the Truth just as it is.

There once was a time you could have a conversation privately with someone and maybe.... you wouldn't have to rebuke them. Now with the internet and social media..... there are no such situations anymore. When I see someone claiming to be teacher.... I'm not going to backoff in some false sense "respect" and not take that problem at face value.

I respect you because of what you believe and the effort you've taken to know Jesus Christ and to change. That is earned. You've earned it.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Apologetics is a defense of the faith. Arguing with those claiming to be faithful to Christ is a different story.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Peter is referencing those who know nothing about God.

When it comes to teaching saints, we rebuke those who will not listen.

I'm willing to listen to any argument to contrary but when someone claiming Christ teaches doctrine that disparages Jesus Christ in any way, I can't respect that belief at all.

I know the "retorts" already to what I just said.....

1. You can be respectful to the person and attack their beliefs.....

Sorry. There is no way to express respect to someone when you're rebuking them. We are what we believe. That is the very essence of faith. When what we believe is an offense to the Truth, then there is no respecting such a person themselves.

Jesus rebukes and chastens every son. That chastening isn't pleasant. However, afterwards... (when they change) it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

People should change. Change isn't easy.

Which is what is wrong with society today. People don't want to make enemies by telling the Truth just as it is.

There once was a time you could have a conversation privately with someone and maybe.... you wouldn't have to rebuke them. Now with the internet and social media..... there are no such situations anymore. When I see someone claiming to be teacher.... I'm not going to backoff in some false sense "respect" and not take that problem at face value.

I respect you because of what you believe and the effort you've taken to know Jesus Christ and to change. That is earned. You've earned it.
Click to expand...
So when Jesus was rebuking the disciples on numerous occasions He was disrespecting them ?
 
civic said:
So when Jesus was rebuking the disciples on numerous occasions He was disrespecting them ?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I don't take pleasure in this but there is a Greek word that most closely translates to "respect" in the English language. It is σέβομαι. That word means to worship in Greek.

Respect requires some sense of "reverence". I "respect" those who adore and honor Jesus Christ.
 

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