What you should do is to find a thread dealing with Israel and God's promises to them that you think have yet to be fulfilled and I'll come and debate you and prove just how blinded you are, pretty sure it would be an easy work, and it will not take many attempts to prove it to anyone with a little understanding.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
1st, I am sure there is many
2nd. That would be literally impossible for you to do. But your more than welcome to try
3rd. I was just responding to someone who was attacking me and trying to prove me wrong. I was not paying attention to what thread it is (when you get notifications it takes you right to the post) Sorry I took your thread up.
Arminain vs calvin, they are both in error
Why do we not discuss the word?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Thank you for the question.
He didn't. That is what they expected of Jesus. It is rhetorical device. Jesus used "rhetorical devices" many times throughout His ministry.
You know how I know?
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
He listened and helped her. She was begging. She humbled herself.
I know we don't always agree but thank you for asking a sensible question. I appreciate it.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Calvinism is just an extension of what Jews have long believed.....
You know.... I'm chosen. God's promises are to me. Not you......
Calvinism just another attempt by another people to seek power over others. You might have a problem with that too. We will see.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It has everything to do with it. That promise given to Abraham in it's entirety is all about Jesus Christ. THE SEED.
Not seeds.
I'm not slandering you at all. I'm right. You keep insisting that Jesus doesn't matter in this when HE is everything.
That promise is owned by Jesus. Not you. Not any other man. Jesus.
Do you think Jesus actually loves you taking the promises due Him and saying it doesn't mean anything for certain men?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No they haven't. I've been debating this since networking was 10baseT.
You don't understand my argument at all. It is why you appealed to "everlasting promises" as if they mean anything in the context of that "land" over there.......
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Dizerner
Well-known member
I think it is.
Faith is specifically called a work here: "your work of faith (1 Thess. 1:3 NKJ)" and here "the work of faith (2 Thess. 1:11 NKJ)" and in several other places.
I didn't and you can't see that because you have been blinded by the Reformed theologians. Of course, the faith in Ephesians 2:8 is of ourselves. It is a condition that God has established for salvation. It contributes absolutely nothing to God's actions in saving.
Actually, you are so wrong, the Jews believed in more in line with Arminianism, they would be in your corner shouting amen, amen, preach it brother. Need proof?
John 8:32-36
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”The Jews boasted of never have been in bondage ~ sound a lot like many in our day, who boast of their free will, who deny man by nature is in bondage to sin and the devil himself. The Jews' own history should had reminded them that they were in bondage to Pharaoh and the Egyptians for 430 years, which is a type of sinners being in bondage to sin and Satan in this world by the very fact they were born with a sinful nature, a nature that loved sin and willingly served it and the spirit that worked in all children of disobedience. All remain in that state until they are set free by the power of God
You are attacking people's character and falsely judging them by your dislike of their teachings instead of going after their doctrine, which most likely you are not able to disprove.
.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'm glad you see your false charges of "off topic".
"Never in bondage" is perfectly aligned with what Calvinists believe about election..... We can tell from the "children of Abraham" part....
Contrary to your false assessment, freewill allows anyone from all nations tongues and tribes. I love Jesus. He loved Abraham. Jesus intends to save all of Abraham's children.
You're not like Jesus.
I do attack people's character. That is what Jesus did in the very verses you posted. You have a very bad character. I intend to show just that. Like I said. You are not like Jesus.
Actually, they both do have errors, and I do not straight up defend Calvinism without showing where I do disagree with them.
The Truth
The truth distinguishes between unconditional and conditional aspects of God’s salvation, dividing between God’s work and our duty.Arminianism in its five points is totally rejected as unscriptural and blasphemous against the intentions and accomplishments of Christ. Man is neither free nor able to cooperate with God for salvation (John 3:3; 8:43,47; 10:26; Rom 8:7-8 I Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1-3). God’s foreknowledge in election did not find any conditions met; it was of persons, not actions (Psalm 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Rom 8:29). Jesus Christ’s death accomplished salvation for His elect; it did not merely make it possible (Matt 1:21 Rom 5:10; Hebrews 9:15). The Holy Spirit’s work in applying salvation through regeneration is effectual and sure (John 3:8; Eph 1:19; Titus 3:5; I Pet 1:2). The elect cannot be lost nor separated from the purpose of God in salvation (John 6:38-39; Rom 8:28-39; 2nd Timothy 2:16-19).
Calvinism may be accepted in its first three points as scriptural and according to the truth of the gospel as preached by brother Paul. Man’s nature is totally corrupt since Eden, rendering him without desire or ability to know or please God in any way for salvation. God’s election of some men to eternal life is based purely on the good pleasure of His will in spite of their foreseen evil rebellion. Jesus Christ died only for the elect, and He will not lose a single one of those that the Father gave Him to fully and finally redeem.
However, Calvinism errs with its point of Irresistable Grace, for they apply it to the gospel and conversion, which is farther than truth. They apply irresistible grace, or what they name the “effectual call,” to the preaching of the gospel in the case of all the elect. They believe that all the elect will hear and believe the gospel sometime during their lives and cannot be saved without these things. This is sacramental salvation, for unless the “priest” carries the grace of God’s gospel to the elect, they cannot be saved without it. They must therefore invent all sorts of alternative theories to cover the salvation of infants, idiots, heathen, the deaf and blind, etc. Of course, they rarely define what they mean by “saving faith,” or they would make it to loose, or limit the elect to just a very few. The typical Calvinist, even John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards, seldom differentiate clearly between regeneration and conversion. God’s grace is definitely irresistible when it comes to regeneration, but conversion by the gospel depends on preacher and hearer. The first of the acts is God’s work in salvation, and the second is the information and news concerning it for the comfort of the elect. However, Calvinism errs with its point of Final Perseverance, for they end up with a fatalist doctrine of men incapable of backsliding. Persevering is man’s action. If God guarantees man’s perseverance, then he will continue in faith and good works without fail. This fatalistic doctrine, if logically followed, would render the New Testament epistles and the work of the ministry unnecessary. If by final perseverance the Calvinist means God will not lose any of His elect, then why not call it preservation like the Bible? God will preserve His saints so that not one will be lost and all make it safely to heaven, but He has not guaranteed their faithfulness.
Let us do so. I just made a post to you, chose any part you would like to discuss.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You have been told again and again why your interpretation of that verse is wrong. Explaining it again won't help. So I will just say it. You are wrong; the phrase, "and that not of yourselves" does not refer to faith. Until you understand that truth, you will be wrong in most of what you believe.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You adulterate the blessed Word of God as clearly delineated below in the traditions of civic (left side) because your heart puts believing (John 3:9-21) before being born of God (John 3:2-8). The pure milk of the Word of God is right on the right hand side!
| The traditions of civic | The Word of God | |
| 2(9) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 3(10) Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 4(11) Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 5(12) If I told you earthly things and you do not cause yourself to believe, how will you cause yourself to believe if I tell you heavenly things? 6(13) No one has ascended into heaven except men who judge right in their own initiative to believe in Me and He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 7(14) As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness for the world including people outside of Israel, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 8(15) so that whoever is unborn of God choosing to believe will have [/u]born his dead self into[/u] eternal life. 9(16) For God so loved the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save from the wrath of God, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever, loving darkness instead of the Light, works to believe by him own initiative in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 10(17) For God did not send the Son into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save to judge the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save, but to save the world including all people everywhere in all time who I fail to save from the wrath of God through Him. 11(18) He who forced God to cause himself to be born again because of his self-willed believing in Him is not judged; he who does not choose to believe has been judged already, because he has not chosen to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 12(19) This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world even those of whom God's love is too weak to save and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 13(20) For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 14(21) 15(2) this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 16(3) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is not born again he can see the kingdom of God.” 17(4) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 18(5) Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 19(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh and this evil flesh profits the flesh and this evil flesh pleases God, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit of no significance. 20(7) Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 21(8) The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know exactly where it comes from and exactly where it is going because your choosing of Me controls your becoming born of the Spirit; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (civic 3:2-21 (no longer the Word of God)) | 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:2-21) |
You impose your free-will adulteration as a replacement for the Apostle John' Gospel thusly:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Gospel of John | |
| But as many as free-will chose to accept Him, to them He gave the right to cause themselves to become children of God, even to those who free-will chose to believe in His name who caused themselves to be born of God. (civic 1:9-13) | There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:9-13) |
Clearly, you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUE AND FAITHFUL ONE!!!
