An Article on free will

[L.A.M.B.]

Questions
.
If there has been no scriptures written down for the sake of religionists to corrupt, debate, & argue over, would any except the Hebrew nation (barring their prosyletes ) know God?
Matthew 15:24 For Jesus himself said he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

After Christ, the Saviour, the Roman Catholic church, which was used to control the Gospel of Jesus was instituted, would there still have been a group of all peoples that served God by the truths shared through the Apostles ?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If Jesus choosing us is what saves us why did he need to go to the cross? Why did he say if I am lifted up from the earth--will draw all men to me."? Does all Men mean just the elect?

He didn't say if I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw you and you and you the rest of you guys you're out of luck.

Women are out of luck, too.

 

[synergy]

continued from post #1,464



The Christ of us Christians lovingly declares "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so, in effect, Christ says "You believing in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

The people asked Jesus "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:28), essentially "How does the works of man work the works of God".

Lord Jesus eliminates "the works of man" (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

​

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10).​

​

Your heart nullifies this Word of God because your explanation results in "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL).

No Christian says man causes man's belief/faith to point at Christ because we Christians believe Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

continued to post #1,467

Let's look at the context of John 6:29 more closely without immediately allowing Calvinist presuppositions to blind us like a bat.

John 6:29 is the answer to the question posed in verse 28 so those 2 verses go together.

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe (πιστευσητε) in Him whom He sent.”

The bold red text describes man's part and the bold blue text describes God's part. What is man to do? He must believe (πιστευσητε) in Christ. πιστευσητε is a 2nd person aorist active verb. So one must be actively or willingly believing in Christ to qualify as the work of God.

A person who does not willingly and actively believe in Christ is only fooling himself. God is never fooled by those who are passive.
Therefore, the Calvinist doctrine of Be Inert, Do Nothing, Wait for the Zapping is a sham at best.

CC: @The Rogue Tomato

 

[TomL]

If Jesus choosing us is what saves us why did he need to go to the cross? Why did he say if I am lifted up from the earth--will draw all men to me."? Does all Men mean just the elect?

He didn't say if I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw you and you and you the rest of you guys you're out of luck.

There are no verses which actually affirm unconditional election to salvation, so Calvinists must jump on every verse which speaks of God choosing as though it refers to salvation and is unconditional

 

[Cyrus]

There are no verses which actually affirm unconditional election to salvation, so Calvinists must jump on every verse which speaks of God choosing as though it refers to salvation and is unconditional

Yes I agree, the acceptance of the doctrine of unconditional election is essential to mainstream Calvinism. The simple process of letting the text say only what it says Clearly undermine beliefs of Calvinism like unconditional election.

 

[Whosoever]

Women are out of luck, too.

No they probably have enough faith to choose Jesus. Look at the woman at the well.

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman​

4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus​

27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”

28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many Samaritans Believe​

39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Jesus Heals an Official’s Son​

43 After the two days he left for Galilee. 44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.) 45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, for they also had been there.

46 Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. 47 When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.

48 “Unless you people see signs and wonders,” Jesus told him, “you will never believe.”

49 The royal official said, “Sir, come down before my child dies.”

50 “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.”

The man took Jesus at his word and departed. 51 While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living. 52 When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, “Yesterday, at one in the afternoon, the fever left him.”

53 Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and his whole household believed.

54 This was the second sign Jesus performed after coming from Judea to Galilee.

 

[Cyrus]

No they probably have enough faith to choose Jesus. Look at the woman at the well.

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman​

4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus​

27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”

28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many Samaritans Believe​

39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Jesus Heals an Official’s Son​

43 After the two days he left for Galilee. 44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.) 45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, for they also had been there.

46 Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. 47 When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.

48 “Unless you people see signs and wonders,” Jesus told him, “you will never believe.”

49 The royal official said, “Sir, come down before my child dies.”

50 “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.”

The man took Jesus at his word and departed. 51 While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living. 52 When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, “Yesterday, at one in the afternoon, the fever left him.”

53 Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and his whole household believed.

54 This was the second sign Jesus performed after coming from Judea to Galilee.

I'm also a Whosoever.

 

[TomL]

Yes I agree, the acceptance of the doctrine of unconditional election is essential to mainstream Calvinism. The simple process of letting the text say only what it says Clearly undermine beliefs of Calvinism like unconditional election.

It's essential because of their doctrine of total inability. If total inability collapses, Calvinism collapses

 

[civic]

Your admission that all unbelievers are encompassed by the term world in itself is sufficient to refute your view

That is who Christ came to save. So your doctrine of limited atonement is false

BTW Neither of your verses show that world means elect alone

And your claim

"Your "no where refers to the elect alone as shown in BDAG" is out of accord with Apostolic testimony shown in the paragraph above and the paragraph below."

is clearly false

Bingo

 

[Kermos]

You failed to show christ chose any other than his apostles

The father had given to him his disciples and from them he chose 12. The bible never states he chose more than them

PS Christ did not choose Matthias

Christs choice was of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”


clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Because i believe i am a friend of Christ's does not mean he was addressing any more than his apostles at the time

Your position suffers from the following defects

Christ is never stated as having chosen all his disciples. They were given to him by the father
Christ is stated to have chosen the 12 out of his disciples who were given by the Father
One who Christ chose was not saved
Matthiasus is never stated to have been chosen by Christ

you are reading your theology into the passage and assuming every choice refers to unconditional salvation

yet there is not a single passage in the bible that actually mentions unconditional election to salvation

Further we know God chooses to save those that believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV) — 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

That is his choice, and it does not support your belief in unconditional election.


abnd w

Your "You failed to show christ chose any other than his apostles" is absolutely false because of the following. A person holding to the false is that person holding to the anti-truth.

You propounded “The father had given to him his disciples and from them he chose 12. The bible never states he chose more than them” in your post respecting John 15:16-19, yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your “Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion” as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter “men who have accompanied us all the time” (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) during the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17.

Thus, your "PS Christ did not choose Matthias" is unequivocally false because the Truth (John 14:6) chose both Joseph and Matthias.

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us – beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us – one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.’ So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus’ disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter’s prounouncement of “men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us – beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us”.

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ’s “you” in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses “you” to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ’s salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King’s decree is a terror.

You answered “Yes” to the question of “Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?” as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus’ first two “you” occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus’ second two “you” occurrences apply “exclusively to the apostles”:

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, ).
​

Your heart’s treasure results in “I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles” (the self-contradictory word of TomL).

Free-will is a conjured up falsehood concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

Your "You failed to show christ chose any other than his apostles" is absolutely false because of the following. A person holding to the false is that person holding to the anti-truth.

You propounded “The father had given to him his disciples and from them he chose 12. The bible never states he chose more than them” in your post respecting John 15:16-19, yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your “Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion” as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter “men who have accompanied us all the time” (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) during the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17.

Thus, your "PS Christ did not choose Matthias" is unequivocally false because the Truth (John 14:6) chose both Joseph and Matthias.

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

​

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us – beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us – one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.’ So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus’ disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter’s prounouncement of “men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us – beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us”.

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ’s “you” in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses “you” to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ’s salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King’s decree is a terror.

You answered “Yes” to the question of “Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?” as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus’ first two “you” occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus’ second two “you” occurrences apply “exclusively to the apostles”:

​

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you​

(Lord Jesus Christ, ).​

Your heart’s treasure results in “I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles” (the self-contradictory word of TomL).
Free-will is a conjured up falsehood concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

Give it up you are simply repeating your failed and insufficient arguments


You failed to show Christ chose any other than his apostles

The father had given to him his disciples and from them he chose 12. The bible never states he chose more than them

PS Christ did not choose Matthias

Christs choice was of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

Strike 1

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Strike 2

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

Strike 3


clearly Christ chose his apostles

additionally Calvinist commentators refute you

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Because i believe i am a friend of Christ's does not mean he was addressing any more than his apostles at the time

Your position suffers from the following defects

Christ is never stated as having chosen all his disciples. They were given to him by the father
Christ is stated to have chosen the 12 out of his disciples who were given by the Father
One who Christ chose was not saved
Matthiasus is never stated to have been chosen by Christ

you are reading your theology into the passage and assuming every choice refers to unconditional salvation

yet there is not a single passage in the bible that actually mentions unconditional election to salvation

Further we know God chooses to save those that believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV) — 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

That is his choice, and it does not support your belief in unconditional election.

 

[Kermos]

Sorry but that is an error as shown by BDAG and multiple Calvinist theologians

....................................

Sorry no. You twist the passage

World corresponds to everyone bitten. That is the entirety of those bitten

Everyone bitten could look to the serpent

Everyone in the world could believe and be saved

For christ came to save the world

John 3:17 (ESV) — 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

compare the parallel verse

John 12:47 (ESV) — 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

where those who do not keep his word are among the world he came to save

see also

Reconciling the world unto himself. The world here evidently means the human race generally, without distinction of nation, age, or rank. The whole world was alienated from him, and he sought to have it reconciled. This is one incidental proof that God designed that the plan of salvation should be adapted to all men; see Note on ver. 14. It may be observed further, that God sought that the world should be reconciled

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 130.

the world—all men (Col 1:20; 1 Jn 2:2). The manner of the reconciling is by His “not imputing to men their trespasses,” but imputing them to Christ the Sin-bearer.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 309.

God was reconciling the world unto himself, means God was making atonement for the sins of the world. He set Christ forth as a propitiation. Theodoret explains ἦν καταλλάσσων by καταλλαγὰς ἐποιήσατο. By the world (κόσμος, without the article) is meant man, mankind

Charles Hodge, An Exposition of the Second Epistle to the Corinthians. (New York: A. C. Armstrong & Son, 1891), 144.

As i stated nowhere does it ever refer to the elect

To be noted the object of his reconciliation cannot vary from the extent of those he came to save and he came to save every sinner

and scripture

John 12:47 (ESV) — 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

and you admitted world encompasses all unbelievers

finally the defect of your argument resides in the fact that once the atonement was provided for the serpent bite it was available to all

Calvinist commentary. lexicons, and scripture all refute your claim

You wrote "For christ came to save the world" about John 3:17 which is unequivocally true, and Christ's use of the word "world" is constrained as per Lord Jesus sayings, shown in the following.

You wrote "finally the defect of your argument resides in the fact that once the atonement was provided for the serpent bite it was available to all", but the point is that Jesus Christ's comparison requires that every single person bitten must be included because the context in Numbers is about the population of persons bitten by the serpents, so the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who died contribute to the full population of people bitten by the serpents; therefore, the full population before and after Moses set up bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9) represent the context for the word "world" used by Jesus in John 3:16 and John 3:17 - as shown in the following.

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.
(Numbers 21:8-9)
​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is exclusively the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[civic]

Women are out of luck, too.

Nope it’s all mankind as in all humanity , all people.

 

[TomL]

You wrote "For christ came to save the world" about John 3:17 which is unequivocally true, and Christ's use of the word "world" is constrained as per Lord Jesus sayings, shown in the following.

World does not mean elect

No lexicons allows such

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.




world(people) — all of the people of the world understood according to the place in which human beings live. Related Topics: People; World.
Jn 1:10 ὁ κόσμος
Jn 3:16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καὶ ἀγγέλοις κ. ἀνθρώποις, 1 Co. 4:9 [W. 127 (121)]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first So in Sap. [e.g. 10:1]): Mt. 13:38; 18:7; Mk. 14:9; Jn. 1:10, 29, [36 L in br.]; 3:16 sq.; 6:33, 51; 8:26; 12:47;

Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 357.

Metonymically, the world meaning the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind (Matt. 5:14; 13:38; John 1:29; 3:16; Rom. 3:6

Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

and this parallel text proves your view is an error

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

and shows any and all who do not believe are a part of the world

You wrote "finally the defect of your argument resides in the fact that once the atonement was provided for the serpent bite it was available to all", but the point is that Jesus Christ's comparison requires that every single person bitten must be included because the context in Numbers is about the population of persons bitten by the serpents, so the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who died contribute to the full population of people bitten by the serpents; therefore, the full population before and after Moses set up bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9) represent the context for the word "world" used by Jesus in John 3:16 and John 3:17 - as shown in the following.

Sorry Once atonement was setup it was available for all

Even your own peers refute you

Reconciling the world unto himself. The world here evidently means the human race generally, without distinction of nation, age, or rank. The whole world was alienated from him, and he sought to have it reconciled. This is one incidental proof that God designed that the plan of salvation should be adapted to all men; see Note on ver. 14. It may be observed further, that God sought that the world should be reconciled

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 130.

the world—all men (Col 1:20; 1 Jn 2:2). The manner of the reconciling is by His “not imputing to men their trespasses,” but imputing them to Christ the Sin-bearer.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 309.

God was reconciling the world unto himself, means God was making atonement for the sins of the world. He set Christ forth as a propitiation. Theodoret explains ἦν καταλλάσσων by καταλλαγὰς ἐποιήσατο. By the world (κόσμος, without the article) is meant man, mankind

Charles Hodge, An Exposition of the Second Epistle to the Corinthians. (New York: A. C. Armstrong & Son, 1891), 144.

If any man hear my words. After having spoken concerning his grace, and exhorted his disciples to steady faith, he now begins to strike the rebellious, though even here he mitigates the severity due to the wickedness of those who deliberately—as it were—reject God; for he delays to pronounce judgment on them, because, on the contrary, he has come for the salvation of all. In the first place, we ought to understand that he does not speak here of all unbelievers without distinction, but of those who, knowingly and willingly, reject the doctrine of the Gospel which has been exhibited to them. Why then does Christ not choose to condemn them? It is because he lays aside for a time the office of a judge, and offers salvation to all without reserve, and stretches out his arms to embrace all, that all may be the more encouraged to repent.

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 50.

Finally you fail to recognize Jesus compares his atonement to when the serpant is lifted up

when lifted up it is available to all

by attempting to comopare it to the period before the atonement was set up you twist Christs comparison

 

[civic]

World does not mean elect

No lexicons allows such

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.




world(people) — all of the people of the world understood according to the place in which human beings live. Related Topics: People; World.
Jn 1:10 ὁ κόσμος
Jn 3:16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καὶ ἀγγέλοις κ. ἀνθρώποις, 1 Co. 4:9 [W. 127 (121)]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first So in Sap. [e.g. 10:1]): Mt. 13:38; 18:7; Mk. 14:9; Jn. 1:10, 29, [36 L in br.]; 3:16 sq.; 6:33, 51; 8:26; 12:47;

Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 357.

Metonymically, the world meaning the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind (Matt. 5:14; 13:38; John 1:29; 3:16; Rom. 3:6

Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

and this parallel text proves your view is an error

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

and shows any and all who do not believe are a part of the world


Sorry Once atonement was setup it was available for all

Even your own peers refute you

Reconciling the world unto himself. The world here evidently means the human race generally, without distinction of nation, age, or rank. The whole world was alienated from him, and he sought to have it reconciled. This is one incidental proof that God designed that the plan of salvation should be adapted to all men; see Note on ver. 14. It may be observed further, that God sought that the world should be reconciled

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 130.

the world—all men (Col 1:20; 1 Jn 2:2). The manner of the reconciling is by His “not imputing to men their trespasses,” but imputing them to Christ the Sin-bearer.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 309.

God was reconciling the world unto himself, means God was making atonement for the sins of the world. He set Christ forth as a propitiation. Theodoret explains ἦν καταλλάσσων by καταλλαγὰς ἐποιήσατο. By the world (κόσμος, without the article) is meant man, mankind

Charles Hodge, An Exposition of the Second Epistle to the Corinthians. (New York: A. C. Armstrong & Son, 1891), 144.

If any man hear my words. After having spoken concerning his grace, and exhorted his disciples to steady faith, he now begins to strike the rebellious, though even here he mitigates the severity due to the wickedness of those who deliberately—as it were—reject God; for he delays to pronounce judgment on them, because, on the contrary, he has come for the salvation of all. In the first place, we ought to understand that he does not speak here of all unbelievers without distinction, but of those who, knowingly and willingly, reject the doctrine of the Gospel which has been exhibited to them. Why then does Christ not choose to condemn them? It is because he lays aside for a time the office of a judge, and offers salvation to all without reserve, and stretches out his arms to embrace all, that all may be the more encouraged to repent.

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 50.

Finally you fail to recognize Jesus compares his atonement to when the serpant is lifted up

when lifted up it is available to all

by attempting to comopare it to the period before the atonement was set up you twist Christs comparison

Obviously the scholarship supports you tom.

 

[Kermos]

Your admission that all unbelievers are encompassed by the term world in itself is sufficient to refute your view

That is who Christ came to save. So your doctrine of limited atonement is false

BTW Neither of your verses show that world means elect alone

And your claim

"Your "no where refers to the elect alone as shown in BDAG" is out of accord with Apostolic testimony shown in the paragraph above and the paragraph below."

is clearly false

Four things, TomL:

1. Christ says ""I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24),
2. The post to which you replied is part of a related series of posts:
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65345
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65376
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65348
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65349
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65350
   So you disregarded broke context with all the Holy Scripture of these posts.
3. Your "no where refers to the elect alone as shown in BDAG" is out of accord with Apostolic testimony which shows each individual one of God's elect alone are part of the "world" before being imparted saving faith by God (Ephesians 2:1-10).
4. Your thoughts expressed in your post there are entirely absent of the Word of God, so you have a shifting sand foundation for your erroneous "And your claim" "is clearly false".

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[TomL]

Four things, TomL:

1. Christ says ""I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24),
2. The post to which you replied is part of a related series of posts:
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65345
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65376
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65348
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65349
   • https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-65350
   So you disregarded broke context with all the Holy Scripture of these posts.
3. Your "no where refers to the elect alone as shown in BDAG" is out of accord with Apostolic testimony which shows each individual one of God's elect alone are part of the "world" before being imparted saving faith by God (Ephesians 2:1-10).
4. Your thoughts expressed in your post there are entirely absent of the Word of God, so you have a shifting sand foundation for your erroneous "And your claim" "is clearly false".

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

So only the lost sheep of Israel can be saved?

hello

That statement fails on the face of it

you also failed to deal with your own confession

Your admission that all unbelievers are encompassed by the term world in itself is sufficient to refute your view

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

all who do not believe are a part of the world


That is who Christ came to save. So your doctrine of limited atonement is false

 

[TomL]

Obviously the scholarship supports you tom.

Yes

Lexicon
Scripture
some Calvinists

 

[Rowan]

Boasting ! What Jesus did you choose with your freewill ? Is the Jesus who came exclusively to save His Sheep, Gods Elect ? That jesus that love everyone and died for everyone, hate to tell you this, is a false jesus

Tell us more about this false jesus of yours. Are his initials C.J. Does he have a black mark on his record Due to burning someone at the stake?

 

[TomL]

Boasting ! What Jesus did you choose with your freewill ? Is the Jesus who came exclusively to save His Sheep, Gods Elect ? That jesus that love everyone and died for everyone, hate to tell you this, is a false jesus

Sounds like you have another Jesus