An Article on free will

synergy said:
I like deep dives also because I personally cannot hold opposing views. I always seek to make sense of everything that seems contradictory at that moment. And I won't rest until I found out how to harmonize Bible verses.
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I know what you're saying sometimes I'll wake up at 3:30 a.m. And have something on my mind that seems contradictory and roll it in my mind And think about how I'm going to study it out. And I realize I might as well give up and get busy because I can lay there in bed and just keep thinking about it and thinking about it and I'm not going to be happy till I get up and start digging deeper.
 
Taylor said:
So it all boils down to on what side of the fence you're on. Either side can use scripture to uphold their beliefs but the real debate is whether or not you hold to Calvinism or some ism. Obviously we can sword fight all day with scriptures but our opinions are going to remain the same.
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People change. There are users here that have changed dramatically in their lives. I know I have. I will change if someone can actually establish their claims with evidence. I have long held the belief that Truth rationally stands up to scrutiny.
 
Taylor said:
I know what you're saying sometimes I'll wake up at 3:30 a.m. And have something on my mind that seems contradictory and roll it in my mind And think about how I'm going to study it out. And I realize I might as well give up and get busy because I can lay there in bed and just keep thinking about it and thinking about it and I'm not going to be happy till I get up and start digging deeper.
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There are truths that are impossible to accept without first knowing information that truth depends upon.

I've study things that it took me years to really understand because I just refused to accept a foundational truth that I was missing.
 
Taylor said:
The closest I come to any denomination would be angelical free church. The church I attend was angelical free but are no longer. There was no church fall out or anything like that.

www.efca.org

Statement of Faith — Evangelical Free Church of America

The Evangelical Free Church of America is an association and fellowship of autonomous and interdependent churches united around the same Statement of Faith.
www.efca.org www.efca.org
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My first exposure to Christianity was through Evangelical Churches. So I have great respect for them but I've moved on since then. I dove deep into History and discovered the Early Christian Church. It's fascinating that the Early Church predated Paul's first Epistle by 2 decades. And it took another set of years before his Epistles were copied and propagated across the Empire. History is a real eye opener.

BYW, I never found out why there is the word "Free" in "Evangelical Free Church". Is it referring to free will?
 
synergy said:
My first exposure to Christianity was through Evangelical Churches. So I have great respect for them but I've moved on since then. I dove deep into History and discovered the Early Christian Church. It's fascinating that the Early Church predated Paul's first Epistle by 2 decades. And it took another set of years before his Epistles were copied and propagated across the Empire. History is a real eye opener.

BYW, I never found out why there is the word "Free" in "Evangelical Free Church". Is it referring to free will?
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I never thought about it I grew up in the 60s so Free love and all that. I never questioned it but I did do a quick search and found this. I don't know how accurate it is

The word Free in the Evangelical Free Church's name refers to its congregational polity, meaning each member church is autonomous, and to its history, meaning that the free churches were free from state control. The governing body of the EFCA is the Leadership Conference held annually.

It sounds about right because the one that I was attending that left that was part of the problem was the mother church was trying to control them and their their philosophy was that they were not receiving any money from them like to pay the rent or anything so they shouldn't be able to control how they run things. That was the disagreement and reason for the breakup. They weren't allowing them to be free.
 
Taylor said:
I never thought about it I grew up in the 60s so Free love and all that. I never questioned it but I did do a quick search and found this. I don't know how accurate it is

The word Free in the Evangelical Free Church's name refers to its congregational polity, meaning each member church is autonomous, and to its history, meaning that the free churches were free from state control. The governing body of the EFCA is the Leadership Conference held annually.

It sounds about right because the one that I was attending that left that was part of the problem was the mother church was trying to control them and their their philosophy was that they were not receiving any money from them like to pay the rent or anything so they shouldn't be able to control how they run things. That was the disagreement and reason for the breakup. They weren't allowing them to be free.
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Interesting. Thanks for that information. Putting finances aside for the moment, there is a real tension between being free to believe and agreeing to a common list of beliefs. That's really tough to do because we all grow as @praise_yeshua mentioned. That's why I sought refuge in History and in the Early Church.
 
praise_yeshua said:
People change. There are users here that have changed dramatically in their lives. I know I have. I will change if someone can actually establish their claims with evidence. I have long held the belief that Truth rationally stands up to scrutiny.
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Our @Administrator , myself and @Joe are 3 that come to mind that changed drastically in our beliefs from Calvinism to non Calvinists in the past 2 years
 
synergy said:
The article runs away from any discussion concerning Calvinism's Unconditional Election onto Salvation.

The debate over unconditional election is not whether or not God elects or predestines people to salvation but upon what basis He elects them.
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Also for what purpose

Calvinist assume salvation is always in view

Isaiah 45:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
 
synergy said:
Interesting. Thanks for that information. Putting finances aside for the moment, there is a real tension between being free to believe and agreeing to a common list of beliefs. That's really tough to do because we all grow as @praise_yeshua mentioned. That's why I sought refuge in History and in the Early Church.
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We most assuredly endlessly repeat the mistakes or triumphs of those before us. Knowing history can help prevent mistakes of the past.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
 
praise_yeshua said:
We most assuredly endlessly repeat the mistakes or triumphs of those before us. Knowing history can help prevent mistakes of the past.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
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That's confirmation for me as I've been thinking about doing a study on the Christian influence and the foundation of America. I was thinking something along the lines of Kirk Cameron's "Monumental" video of the Pilgrims journey to America. And ending up with the taking of prayer out of our schools. And the effects that has had on our country.

 
Aeliana said:
That's confirmation for me as I've been thinking about doing a study on the Christian influence and the foundation of America. I was thinking something along the lines of Kirk Cameron's "Monumental" video of the Pilgrims journey to America. And ending up with the taking of prayer out of our schools. And the effects that has had on our country.

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I'll share my opinion and please don't let it influence your efforts. You follow God as He leads you.

I largely consider the "triumphant" past of America a "farce". Don't get me wrong. America has been a "shining light" to this world but it has always come with many hypocrites and pretenders living off the success of others. Success is often one of worst thing that can happen to a person in this life. They often.... forget God.
 
praise_yeshua said:
I'll share my opinion and please don't let it influence your efforts. You follow God as He leads you.

I largely consider the "triumphant" past of America a "farce". Don't get me wrong. America has been a "shining light" to this world but it has always come with many hypocrites and pretenders living off the success of others. Success if often one of worst things that can happen to a person in this life. They often.... forget God.
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Sounds good to me, if you have any more thoughts on the subject I'd be glad to hear them. I plan on sharing some more after I do a little study.
Have you ever read about what the pilgrims went through in England and Holland before they arrived here?
 
Aeliana said:
Sounds good to me, if you have any more thoughts on the subject I'd be glad to hear them. I plan on sharing some more after I do a little study.
Have you ever read about what the pilgrims went through in England and Holland before they arrived here?
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The pilgrims in England left England because they didn't have enough freedoms.
The pilgrims in Holland left Holland because they had too much freedoms.
 
synergy said:
The pilgrims in England left England because they didn't have enough freedoms.
The pilgrims in Holland left Holland because they had too much freedoms.
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I'm talking about the same group of pilgrims. The way the story is portrayed in monumental. The persecution and imprisonment they went through in England trying to reach America. Then being unable to make that happen they went to Holland as a safe haven. But the main goal was to come to the new world. At least that's what I've been led to believe. I definitely appreciate your input.

Holland: First Stop for the Pilgrims

Before shipping out to the New World, the group of religious separatists fled first to Amsterdam and Leiden.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov earthobservatory.nasa.gov
 
Aeliana said:
Sounds good to me, if you have any more thoughts on the subject I'd be glad to hear them. I plan on sharing some more after I do a little study.
Have you ever read about what the pilgrims went through in England and Holland before they arrived here?
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Yes. There were tremendous religious persecution among many early settlers. Much of it came from the monarchy in England always trying to subjugate all men to their rule. It is even seen in the KJV itself. If you study the textual history of Hebrews 13, you will find there is only one explanation for why the KJV has "rule" in Hebrews chapter 13 when ἡγέομαι should NEVER be translated "Rule".

βασιλεύω is rule in Greek. βασιλεύω and ἡγέομαι are not even similar.

King James considered himself to have the "Divine Right of Kings". I have very little doubt that the ArchBishop and "overseer" at the time of the KJV (Richard Bancroft) influenced the translation to the benefit of the monarchy in opposition to the "Reformers" work on the Geneva Bible.

( It is ironic that Richard Bancroft was the "overseer" when ἡγέομαι is actually translated correctly as "overseer".

There is only One ruler of men. Jesus Christ. We have direct access to Him.

I could spend much time on how this mistranslation has affected Christianity in America. Many many men have used these verses to establish an "absolute" rule of their authority in their local assemblies).

I hope I haven't offended you but I'm a student of history as well. We must see corruption where it exists if we are going to live in reality. Just my penny.
 
Aeliana said:
I'm talking about the same group of pilgrims. The way the story is portrayed in monumental. The persecution and imprisonment they went through in England trying to reach America. Then being unable to make that happen they went to Holland as a safe haven. But the main goal was to come to the new world. At least that's what I've been led to believe. I definitely appreciate your input.

Holland: First Stop for the Pilgrims

Before shipping out to the New World, the group of religious separatists fled first to Amsterdam and Leiden.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov earthobservatory.nasa.gov
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Your article correctly said:

Dutch culture was perceived to be a bad influence on the children;

I stayed in Leiden for 3 months 10 years ago for work. You can oftentimes smell the Marijuana through certain streets. It was embarrassing when I was with my kids. Dutch culture had too much freedoms for the Pilgrim's children. That's the main reason why the Dutch Pilgrims left for North America.

Leiden has an interesting Pilgrim Museum that I visited. I highly recommend it to anyone who is in Holland or thereabouts.
 
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