An Article on free will

[TomL]

Again, who says anything different? Must argue even when we are in agreement?

Some Calvinists here.

Just making it clear

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You said it. Her Faith. That proves that she has the personal responsibility to have it grow. Her faith did not get zapped into her fully developed. The idea that you Stay Inert, Do Nothing, and Wait for the Zapping is heretical.

Who is the author of her faith?

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith

Some translations add "our" to it (implied, nor in the Greek). Jesus, the author and finisher of OUR faith. The addition of "OUR" doesn't change the fact that Jesus is the author of our faith.

 

[TomL]

So what does it mean by founder and perfected of "our" faith? ESV

Our faith is centered in him from start to finish

but it is not our faith but the faith

Hebrews 12:2 (LSB) — 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

there is no personal pronoun corresponding to our

 

[brightfame52]

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

The object of her faith, Christ

 

[TomL]

The object of her faith, Christ

does not answer the question

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

That would be silly. When you give something to someone, do you always refer to it as "your thing that I gave you"? No, you gave it to her, it's hers now.

 

[civic]

It is simply a notation that one must have faith to be justified

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

No one is justified apart from personal faith

Ditto

 

[brightfame52]

Who is the author of her faith?

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith

Some translations add "our" to it (implied, nor in the Greek). Jesus, the author and finisher of OUR faith. The addition of "OUR" doesn't change the fact that Jesus is the author of our faith.

Right He is the cause of it. The word author is the greek word archēgos, and its made of two words
agō and archē which means:

1. that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

and ago means:
to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Jesus is the active cause of our faith, He influences the mind

 

[Rockson]

Its the salvation of who it belongs to. Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Its not to a unsaved person DUH

Duh? Are you really being serious? Have to believe you're playing a game of bluff.

There is absolutely nothing in the text your provided Eph 1:13 which excludes salvation as not belonging to the whole human race to believe and receive.

Another analogy: It's tax time. An accountant is in church helping Christians understand their tax exemptions. He says to them YOUR EXEMPTIONS. Does that mean he can't go to a non Christian group and tell them the same thing and say the same word ...... YOURS? It belongs to YOU TOO? He can't do that?

If you just can't seem to comprehend that I won't give you a condescending DUH as you gave me but I would appeal to you to go back to the drawing board and re-think your position.

 

[brightfame52]

does not answer the question

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

It does to me, It was the object of her faith that saved her, she was drawn to Him

 

[civic]

Luke 7:50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

How would you respond if Christ told you that?

Your strawman of us taking credit is getting really old and boring.

Yes not the faith I gave , gifted or zapped you with .

 

[TomL]

It does to me, It was the object of her faith that saved her, she was drawn to Him

You are seeing what you want

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

nothing there states he gave her that faith

 

[praise_yeshua]

Right He is the cause of it. The word author is the greek word archēgos, and its made of two words
agō and archē which means:

1. that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

and ago means:
to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Jesus is the active cause of our faith, He influences the mind

Over and over again you present Christ as nothing more than a means for YOU.

God is a Jealous God. Election isn't about YOU.

 

[TomL]

Ditto

but some of the Calvinist want to repeal the battle cry of the reformation and grant justification apart from faith

 

[TomL]

That would be silly. When you give something to someone, do you always refer to it as "your thing that I gave you"? No, you gave it to her, it's hers now.

Why not

"I have saved you by giving you faith"

Its what you believe though never stated

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are seeing what you want

So why did he not say the faith he gave saved her?

nothing there states he gave her that faith

but some of the Calvinist want to repeal the battle cry of the reformation and grant justification apart from faith

"Ain't" that the truth........

 

[TomL]

"Ain't" that the truth........

Whatever the needs of the theology

 

[praise_yeshua]

Whatever the needs of the theology

Calvinism is THE most self serving theology that exists in modern Christianity. THE....

 

[synergy]

Who is the author of her faith?

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith

Some translations add "our" to it (implied, nor in the Greek). Jesus, the author and finisher of OUR faith. The addition of "OUR" doesn't change the fact that Jesus is the author of our faith.

The fact is that belief is a faculty of human nature. Everyone believes in something. That's how the human mind works. Now how does that belief become salvific? It's through hearing the word of God (Rom 10:17). Hearing is also a faculty of human nature so everyone has the capability to salvifically believe upon encountering the word of God. After professing belief in Christ and being regenerated at that point then it's our responsibility to have our faith grow through Bible studies, Fellowshipping, etc....

As for Heb 12:2-3, Christ is both the αρχηγον (Head, Initiator) and τελειωτὴν (Finisher) of our Faith. He voluntarily accepted the humiliation and even death of the Cross and in that way we are to imitate his determination and perseverance in our lives. There is nothing in there that says "Stay Inert, Do Nothing, and Wait for the Zapping" which is Calvinism's battle cry.

(Heb 12:2) ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν, ὅς, ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς, ὑπέμεινεν σταυρόν, αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας, ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ κεκάθικεν.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The fact is that belief is a faculty of human nature. Everyone believes in something. That's how the human mind works. Now how does that belief become salvific? It's through hearing the word of God (Rom 10:17). Hearing is also a faculty of human nature so everyone has the capability to salvifically believe upon encountering the word of God. After professing belief in Christ and being regenerated at that point then it's our responsibility to have our faith grow through Bible studies, Fellowshipping, etc....

As for Heb 12:2-3, Christ is both the αρχηγον (Head, Initiator) and τελειωτὴν (Finisher) of our Faith. He voluntarily accepted the humiliation and even death of the Cross and in that way we are to imitate his determination and perseverance in our lives. There is nothing in there that says "Stay Inert, Do Nothing, and Wait for the Zapping" which is Calvinism's battle cry.

(Heb 12:2) ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν, ὅς, ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς, ὑπέμεινεν σταυρόν, αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας, ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ κεκάθικεν.

Well said.

Example, It is impossible to get an Calvinist to admit that there is a required human faculty of hearing needed in the Gospel. I've tried to get a few here to at least recognize this fact with nothing but "crickets".

Human language is a construct of the human mind. It is essential that the human mind discern the human language of men before they will ever experience salvation.

Calvinism eliminates this requirement from their system because it destroys the very essence of their silly claims.

As witnessed in your example, it is actually the limits in English that keeps men from understanding the Scriptures. Not God.