An Article on free will

[The Rogue Tomato]

What is faith ? Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why. ( Heb 11:1) Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)

hope this helps !!!

Faith is not a work. Certainly not a work of man.

 

[Presby02]

duh- by faith

1-without faith its impossible to please God. ( do you believe that ? )

2-the Just/Righteous shall live by faith ( do you believe that ? )

3-we are justified by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

4- man is saved by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

5- man receives eternal life through/by faith ( do you believe that ? )

6- man receives the Spirit by faith ( do you believe that ? )

hope this helps !!!

Why was it so hard to answer?

 

[brightfame52]

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is [i]that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

The listeners may not have understood what "the work of God" meant, but they understood it was not their "work" to believe on [trust in] Jesus. The understood it as a sign from God that would make them believe.

What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe you. What work do YOU perform [so that we may see and believe]?

The listeners right there knew "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" was a work of God, not a work required by God. And if you don't believe that, then you believe faith is a work required by God, which contradicts the rest of the New Testament.

Yes the elects believing is by the working of Gods mighty power, the same as in accordance with the power that raised up Christ from the dead Eph 1:18-20

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe-according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 

[Presby02]

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is [i]that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

The listeners may not have understood what "the work of God" meant, but they understood it was not their "work" to believe on [trust in] Jesus. The understood it as a sign from God that would make them believe.

What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe you. What work do YOU perform [so that we may see and believe]?

The listeners right there knew "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" was a work of God, not a work required by God. And if you don't believe that, then you believe faith is a work required by God, which contradicts the rest of the New Testament.

What is the "work of God" in the text do you think they will say?

 

[civic]

Faith is not a work. Certainly not a work of man.

it is 100 % mans responsibility. God doesn't believe for man or zap a man with faith. That is a not the gospel of the bible.

 

[Presby02]

it is 100 % mans responsibility. God doesn't believe for man or zap a man with faith. That is a not the gospel of the bible.

No one says it's not man's responsibility. If so who?

No one says God believes for you. Strawman number 2

Or zaps man with faith, number 3.

 

[civic]

Why was it so hard to answer?

its not and God does not give/gift man with faith and zap them with it. That is mans responsibility and what t required by God for a man to be saved. Believe in Christ to be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is not a work. Certainly not a work of man.

It becomes a work of man and of the law if its done by the unregenerate as a condition to gain Salvation Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[Presby02]

its not and God does not give/gift man with faith and zap them with it. That is mans responsibility and what t required by God for a man to be saved. Believe in Christ to be saved.

Salvation is a gift which includes faith.

Belief is granted or given by God.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Yes the elects believing is by the working of Gods mighty power, the same as in accordance with the power that raised up Christ from the dead Eph 1:18-20

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe-according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

You recall the movie "They Live", where they could see the propaganda when they wear a special set of glasses? I think free willers always wear those glasses, and this is what they see:

19 And what is the exceeding greatness to us-ward who believe-according to the working of our mighty power of our free will,

 

[civic]

No one says it's not man's responsibility. If so who?

No one says God believes for you. Strawman number 2

Or zaps man with faith, number 3.

Sure they do all of the time. I know I was a calvinst for over 40 years and use to teach that all of the time and all the calvinists online would agree. And many like Gill , White, Sproul and others teach it.

 

[civic]

Salvation is a gift which includes faith.

Belief is granted or given by God.

nope salvation is the gift in Ephesians 2, nice try.

and you just contradicted your last post saying no one teaches it when you just said it.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is a gift which includes faith.

Belief is granted or given by God.

Exactly, it accompanies Salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

It comes with the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, which is given to all for whom Christ died 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[Presby02]

nope salvation is the gift in Ephesians 2, nice try.

and you just contradicted your last post saying no one teaches it when you just said it.

That's what I said. Which includes faith. Is faith part of salvation?

Point out the contradiction.

 

[Presby02]

Sure they do all of the time. I know I was a calvinst for over 40 years and use to teach that all of the time and all the calvinists online would agree. And many like Gill , White, Sproul and others teach it.

Then quote them. Let's see it. You might be right and if you are I would have to disagree with them.

 

[civic]

That's what I said. Which includes faith. Is faith part of salvation?

Point out the contradiction.

If God gives man faith then God zaps/gifts them with faith. Its the same thing. You never believed, God gave you the belief.

 

[Presby02]

You recall the movie "They Live", where they could see the propaganda when they wear a special set of glasses? I think free willers always wear those glasses, and this is what they see:

19 And what is the exceeding greatness to us-ward who believe-according to the working of our mighty power of our free will,

Was that the movie with Roudy Roddy Piper? I remember that movie

 

[civic]

Then quote them. Let's see it. You might be right and if you are I would have to disagree with them.

I'm not going to quote them all but here is a high calvinist Gill -its the position of most all high calvinists like MacArthur, White, Sproul etc... I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right. Like I said I taught the same thing for decades and use to quote all the Reformed theologians who taught the same.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God,.... The main and principal one, and which is well pleasing in his sight; and without which it is impossible to please him; and without which no work whatever is a good work; and this is of the operation of God, which he himself works in men; it is not of themselves, it is the pure gift of God:

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Was that the movie with Roudy Roddy Piper? I remember that movie

Yeah. I came here to [censored] and chew bubblegum. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

 

[Presby02]

I'm not going to quote them all but here is a high calvinist Gill -its the position of most all high calvinists like MacArthur, White, Sproul etc... I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right. Like I said I taught the same thing for decades and use to quote all the Reformed theologians who taught the same.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God,.... The main and principal one, and which is well pleasing in his sight; and without which it is impossible to please him; and without which no work whatever is a good work; and this is of the operation of God, which he himself works in men; it is not of themselves, it is the pure gift of God:

If your right then quote them.