Hello
@civic,
You went silent during an exchange in which you and I were engaged back on February 16. Let's return to that point in the exchange:
Do you believe Lord Jesus, the Christ of us Christians, when He says "
you believe in Him whom He has sent" is very explicitly "
the work of God" (
John 6:29)?
The result of your thoughts expressed in your post results in your heart adding "
exclusively the 12 of" into the Word of God recorded in John 15:16-19 such that:
16 Exclusively the 12 of you did not choose me, but I chose exclusively the 12 of you and appointed exclusively the 12 of you so that exclusively the 12 of you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever exclusively the 12 of you ask in my name the Father will give exclusively the 12 of you. 17 This is my command: Love each other. 18 “If the world hatesexclusively the 12 of you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If exclusively the 12 of you belonged to the world, it would love exclusively the 12 of you as its own. As it is, exclusively the 12 of you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen exclusively the 12 of you out of the world. That is why the world hates exclusively the 12 of you.
(the word of civic)
Continuing on with your heart's thoughts,
@civic, of John 15:16-19, you wrote "
Jesus talking to the 12 here", but, by the time Jesus bestows these blessings to all believers in all time, Judas Iscariot departed (John 13:21-30), so that leaves 11 apostles, not your "
the 12", but truly the 11, so you err with your inclusion of Judas Iscariot inside of Lord Jesus Christ's blessing of salvation with "
I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).
@civic, let's dig even deeper into the wonderful words of the Word of God - let us behold the audience of Lord Jesus Christ saying "
you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "
I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
At the time Jesus bestows these blessings to all believers in all time, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias (Acts 1:21-23) were also present, not your exclusively "
the 12" apostles, but truly a minimum of 13 persons is contextually established, so your "
exclusively the 12 apostles" is in error.
At the time Jesus bestows these blessings to all believers in all time (see John 15:16-19), the Lord explained "
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you" (John 15:20) JUST ONE VERSE AFTER JOHN 15:19, so this word of Christ's is in context with the manner the world persecutes Christians as Christ's words recorded in Mark 13:1-37 including "
What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37) thus context exists between John 15:16, John 15:19, John 15:20, and Mark 13:37, so you err with your exclusion of all Christians in all time.
Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Relation To Exclusive Choice By Jesus (John 15:16)
Lord Jesus immediately adjacently joins persons chosen by Jesus with selfsame persons being friends of Friend Jesus (
John 15:15-16).
I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
A friend of Jesus does not choose Jesus, but Jesus does choose the friend of Jesus (
John 15:15-16), and a friend of Jesus does what Jesus commands (
John 15:14) by the appointment of Jesus (
John 15:16) thus being a friend of Jesus by the Christ's choosing (
John 15:14-16).
Free-willians disavow Christ's words of "
you did not choose me" (
John 15:16) for themselves while at the same time declaring the words as exclusively applicable to the apostles; therefore, free-willians deny being a friend of Jesus which Jesus covers in the self-same sayings.
A friend of Jesus marvels at the glorious exclusive work of God's salvation of man; on the other hand, an enemy of Jesus steals the exclusive glory of man's salvation from God by saying things like "I chose Jesus", yet God does not give His glory to another (
Isaiah 42:8).
By the Power of God, for God's glory (
Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus bears good fruit/works because apart from Jesus a person can do nothing (
John 15:5).
By the Power of God, by God's grace, for God's glory (
Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus is saved from the wrath of God because Jesus, Lord and God (
John 20:28), says "
I chose you out of the world" (
John 15:19).
Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @civic?
Jesus is the only One in the New Testament that talks about Jesus Christ's friends, not Paul, not Peter, but Jesus alone, and He says He chooses His friends right here recorded in John 15:15-16.
We Christians believe the Christ exclusively chooses persons unto salvation:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (
Proverbs 30:6).
We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without us being required to do any kind of work because the Word of God says "
you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ,
John 15:16) and "
I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ,
John 15:19, includes salvation)! PRAISE BE TO THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
