An Article on free will

[TomL]

According to Romans 5:19 how are they made righteous? And how were they made sinners ?

They are made righhteous through faith

Romans 4:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[civic]

They are made righhteous through faith

Romans 4:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

don't you know faith is a work in calvinism when someone says they are saved by their faith. its hard to understand why people actually buy into that nonsense. they are reading a different bible, a different gospel than the one in the scriptures.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

don't you know faith is a work in calvinism when someone says they are saved by their faith. its hard to think that people actually buy into that nonsense.

Faith is a work of God. It's not a work of man. With man, it is impossible.

 

[TomL]

don't you know faith is a work in calvinism when someone says they are saved by their faith. its hard to understand why people actually buy into that nonsense. they are reading a different bible, a different gospel than the one in the scriptures.

That despite the bible denying it

Romans 4:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[civic]

Hello @civic,

You went silent during an exchange in which you and I were engaged back on February 16. Let's return to that point in the exchange:


Do you believe Lord Jesus, the Christ of us Christians, when He says "you believe in Him whom He has sent" is very explicitly "the work of God" (John 6:29)?

Here is how an honest calvinist theologian exegetes/understands the text for what it is saying, not by the calvinists dogma

​

BARNES This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

And Calvin below

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

conclusion: your eisegesis has been exposed via John Calvin and Albert Barnes.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

Read.

Nowhere then. That's what I figured

 

[praise_yeshua]

Faith is a work of God. It's not a work of man. With man, it is impossible.

Grass is a work of God. With man, it is impossible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nowhere then. That's what I figured

Read what I wrote in response to another.

 

[civic]

Faith is a work of God. It's not a work of man. With man, it is impossible.

This is the meaning in John 6:29 which the Netbible captures and the calvinist misinterprets via eisegesis.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)


NET Bible
Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."

and the Weymouth as well

Weymouth New Testament
"This," replied Jesus, "is above all the thing that God requires--that you should be believers in Him whom He has sent."

Good News Translation
Jesus answered, "What God wants you to do is to believe in the one he sent."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to them: “This is the service of God, that you trust in him whom he has sent.”

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, "God wants you to have faith in the one he sent."

New Living Translation
Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[TomL]

Here is how an honest calvinist theologian exegetes/understands the text for what it is saying, not by the calvinists dogma

​

BARNES This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

And

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

 

[brightfame52]

They are made righhteous through faith

Romans 4:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

According to Romans 5:19 how are they made righteous? And how were they made sinners ?

 

[civic]

And

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

End of discussion for the calviinst right from the horses mouth

I will be saving this one.

 

[Presby02]

According to Romans 5:19 how are they made righteous? And how were they made sinners ?

No answer yet? End of discussion apparently. Good job.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

End of discussion for the calviinst right from the horses mouth

I will be saving this one.

Enjoy it. I don't read or follow John Calvin.

 

[civic]

Enjoy it. I don't read or follow John Calvin.

only the calvinist/determinist who sees what you see in John 6:29- never once heard a non calvinist see it through your view. Its only the determinist who see John 6:29 that way. And there are honest calvinist theologians who exegete the text properly and declare that its Gods requirement that faith is necessary to be saved and man must believe, God does not gift them with faith. That is EISEGESIS.

I always enjoy the truth and discovering the truth and correcting views I previously held that were wrong.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

No answer yet? End of discussion apparently. Good job.

I have gotten a few answers, but not according to what is written in Rom 5:19

 

[civic]

No answer yet? End of discussion apparently. Good job.

duh- by faith

1-without faith its impossible to please God. ( do you believe that ? )

2-the Just/Righteous shall live by faith ( do you believe that ? )

3-we are justified by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

4- man is saved by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

5- man receives eternal life through/by faith ( do you believe that ? )

6- man receives the Spirit by faith ( do you believe that ? )

hope this helps !!!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

only the calvinist/determinist who sees what you see in John 6:29- never once heard a non calvinist see it through your view. Its only the determinist who see John 6:29 that way. And there are honest calvinist theologians who exegete the text properly and declare that its Gods requirement that faith is necessary to be saved and man must believe, God does not gift them with faith. That is EISEGESIS.

hope this helps !!!

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is [i]that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

The listeners may not have understood what "the work of God" meant, but they understood it was not their "work" to believe on [trust in] Jesus. The understood it as a sign from God that would make them believe.

What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe you. What work do YOU perform [so that we may see and believe]?

The listeners right there knew "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" was a work of God, not a work required by God. And if you don't believe that, then you believe faith is a work required by God, which contradicts the rest of the New Testament.

 

[brightfame52]

duh- by faith

1-without faith its impossible to please God. ( do you believe that ? )

2-the Just/Righteous shall live by faith ( do you believe that ? )

3-we are justified by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

4- man is saved by faith, not by works ( do you believe that ? )

5- man receives eternal life through/by faith ( do you believe that ? )

6- man receives the Spirit by faith ( do you believe that ? )

hope this helps !!!

So according to Rom 5:19 how does Paul say many were made sinners and how many shall be made righteous ?

 

[civic]

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is [i]that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

The listeners may not have understood what "the work of God" meant, but they understood it was not their "work" to believe on [trust in] Jesus. The understood it as a sign from God that would make them believe.

What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe you. What work do YOU perform [so that we may see and believe]?

The listeners right there knew "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" was a work of God, not a work required by God. And if you don't believe that, then you believe faith is a work required by God, which contradicts the rest of the New Testament.

What is faith ? Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why. ( Heb 11:1) Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)

hope this helps !!!