An Article on free will

[Presby02]

Got to love someone that doesn't know the Reformers claiming the Reformers never taught "such a thing".

You're something else. Amazing. Self satisfying and complete. I wonder why you just can't admit that you're god. Go for it. Quote "ye are Gods". Go for it. You know you want to do it.

Shhh.....adults are talking now.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No one said it's not your faith. When it's gifted to you. I can, "in all things give thanks", even for my faith that was gifted to me by the grace of God.

Now about those quotes? God zaps faith, believes for you. Then I can thank you as well.

SOLA DEO GLORIA

They love mocking and misrepresenting election. It's an intellectually dishonest way of debating the topic.

 

[civic]

Philippians 1:29

Of course that is the same quite you provided for John 6:29. Was he referring to both?

lol Phil is addressing BELIEVERS- those who are already saved, not unbelievers who need faith to be saved.

Context is KING. You just ripped Phil 1:29 from its context. A text without the context is a pretext for a proof-text. Guilty of proof texting your doctrines and reading them into Scripture- EISEGESIS.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's because we often call ourselves "Calvinists" as a shorthand for "sovereignty and election", not because we follow or even read Calvin. I stopped calling myself a Calvinist for this very reason. I couldn't possibly care less about what Calvin wrote.

Do you not see that you're "poisoning the well" with your "baked in" position?

At least be intellectually honest. Calvinists isn't "shorthand" for Truth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

They love mocking and misrepresenting election. It's an intellectually dishonest way of debating the topic.

I made a statement relative to his comment. I'll be glad to debate either one of you line by line through election. Where do you want to start? Go first. Establish your own premise and try to limit your comments to 500 words or less to each response. Prove your claim.

 

[civic]

They love mocking and misrepresenting election. It's an intellectually dishonest way of debating the topic.

TULIP is not true so there is nothing wrong with debating it and showing its errors. I love calvinists, I was one for 40 years and I was saved as a calvinist. So I'm not mocking them. I'm still good friends with many calvinists. I co-lead a mens discipleship group at church on Thursday mornings with a calvinist.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Do you not see that you're "poisoning the well" with your "baked in" position?

At least be intellectually honest. Calvinists isn't "shorthand" for Truth.

Calvinism is definitely not "shorthand" for truth. I already told you, "Calvinism" is shorthand for predestination and election. But because of people like you who attack Calvin, I stopped using the term "Calvinism". It's intellectually honest to do that because I never read Calvin, nor did I get my ideas about election from Calvin. I didn't get any of my views from TULIP, either. If my views overlap with Calvinism or TULIP at all, I'm unaware of it. I couldn't care less, since I'm not a follower of Calvin, nor a student of TULIP.

 

[civic]

It is, however, my faith when it is gifted to me.

Add magically to zaps, believes for you to the list of strawmen.

faith is not a gift since its required by God otherwise the command to believe becomes NONSENSE. Man would be incapable of believing the gospel. Preaching the gospel becomes irrelevant if God gives faith. Gods word and the gospel are unnecessary.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

TULIP is not true so there is nothing wrong with debating it and showing its errors. I love calvinists, I was one for 40 years and I was saved as a calvinist. So I'm not mocking them. I'm still good friends with many calvinists. I co-lead a mens discipleship group at church on Thursday mornings with a calvinist.

I was a free-willer for years. So? Is that supposed to be relevant? Do I have a special insight into the errors of free-willism because I was once a free-willer? I think it's time you stop resorting to your failed history.

 

[civic]

I was a free-willer for years. So? Is that supposed to be relevant? Do I have a special insight into the errors of free-willism because I was once a free-willer? I think it's time you stop resorting to your failed history.

Calvinism = a failure. Good to know.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Calvinism is definitely not "shorthand" for truth. I already told you, "Calvinism" is shorthand for predestination and election.

So Sovereignty and Predestination isn't Truth. That is how you're treating "the doctrines of grace" you claim.

But because of people like you who attack Calvin, I stopped using the term "Calvinism". It's intellectually honest to do that because I never read Calvin, nor did I get my ideas about election from Calvin. I didn't get any of my views from TULIP, either. If my views overlap with Calvinism or TULIP at all, I'm unaware of it. I couldn't care less, since I'm not a follower of Calvin, nor a student of TULIP.

I deal with Calvinism perspective because it is definable to certain degree. I'm trying to get a definable position to deal from you. That is what I try to do with everyone that I debate.

 

[brightfame52]

yep you don't have faith it was never your faith since God gave you the belief itself. You have proven my point. Thanks !

So when someone gives you something, after it received, its not yours ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So when someone gives you something, after it received, its not yours ?

It is not entirely yours. Is your wife yours? I bet she will have something to say about that......

It really is senseless to treat sovereignty as if there is no sense of secondary cause. Trained Calvinists would condemn your position.

 

[brightfame52]

It is not entirely yours. Is your wife yours? I bet she will have something to say about that......

It really is senseless to treat sovereignty as if there is no sense of secondary cause. Trained Calvinists would condemn your position.

When God gives one salvation as a Gift is it theirs ? Can you say its yours according to Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[praise_yeshua]

When God gives one salvation as a Gift is it theirs ? Can you say its yours according to Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Do you apply the same logic to your wife? When God gives you a wife, do you own her?

You're talking in absolutes that have no meaningful applications relative to your experience. Which is the very definition of being disingenuous.

 

[civic]

When God gives one salvation as a Gift is it theirs ? Can you say its yours according to Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

They were saved AFTER they believed the gospel in that passage, not before. Thanks for sharing the truth. AMEN.

 

[brightfame52]

Do you apply the same logic to your wife? When God gives you a wife, do you own her?

You're talking in absolutes that have no meaningful applications relative to your experience. Which is the very definition of being disingenuous.

If God gives a Gift to someone its theirs.

 

[brightfame52]

They were saved AFTER they believed the gospel in that passage, not before. Thanks for sharing the truth. AMEN.

It was their Salvation before they believed, thats why they believed, they were saved, they possessed Salvation

 

[civic]

If God gives a Gift to someone its theirs.

salvation is the gift, eternal life is the gift and those gifts only come when one believes in the gospel. Belief is mans responsibility. Belief is not a gift to the unbeliever- they are required to believe.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

If God gives a Gift to someone its theirs.

Lets keep playing this out and see where it goes.

Do you tell her that she belongs to you?