civic
Well-known member
Amen
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
I don't think you understand what Jesus said there. First, "nations" from the Greek ἔθνος [ethnos] means Gentiles heathens, nation, or people
Second, baptizing and teaching are participials modifying the verb make. It doesn't describe what is to be done to disciples; rather, in both the Greek and the English, that grammatical construction describes that baptizing and teaching are how disciples are to be made from all the Gentiles heathens, nation, or people. It pretty much destroys the very idea of monogisitic regeneration and salvation.
@Jim
Your rejection of God's sovereignty is based upon human reasoning, not based upon the teachings of any particular religious sect.
Colossians 1:16
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”It was of the sovereign pleasure of God, that he contrived a way to save any of mankind, and gave us Jesus Christ, his only-begotten Son, to be our Redeemer. Jim, Why did he look on us, and send us a Saviour, and not the fallen angels? It was from the sovereign pleasure of God. It was of his sovereign pleasure what means to appoint. His giving us the Bible, and the ordinances of religion, is of his sovereign grace. His giving those means to us rather than to others, his giving the awakening influences of his Spirit, and his bestowing saving grace, are all of his sovereign pleasure. When he says, 'Let there be light in the soul of such an one,' it is a word of infinite power and sovereign grace. None can say unto him, that's not righteous, yet vain and proud men do this very thing, that's not the God they have created in their own heart.
Jim, it is agreeable to God's design in the creation of the universe to exercise every attribute, and thus to manifest the glory of each of them. God's design in the creation was to glorify himself, or to make a discovery of the essential glory of his nature. It was fit that infinite glory should shine forth; and it was God's original design to make a manifestation of his glory, as it is. Not that it was his design to manifest all his glory to the apprehension of creatures; for it is impossible that the minds of creatures should comprehend it. But it was his design to make a true manifestation of his glory, such as should represent every attribute. If God glorified one attribute, and not another, such manifestation of his glory would be defective; and the representation would not be complete. If all God's attributes are not manifested, the glory of none of them is manifested as it is: for the divine attributes reflect glory on one another. Thus if God's wisdom be manifested, and not his holiness, the glory of his wisdom would not be manifested as it is; for one part of the glory of the attribute of divine wisdom is, that it is a holy wisdom. So if his holiness were manifested, and not his wisdom, the glory of his holiness would not be manifested as it is; for one thing which belongs to the glory of God's holiness is, that it is a wise holiness. So it is with respect to the attributes of mercy and justice. The glory of God's mercy does not appear as it is, unless it is manifested as a just mercy, or as a mercy consistent with justice. And so with respect to God's sovereignty, it reflects glory on all his other attributes. It is part of the glory of God's mercy, that it is sovereign mercy. So all the attributes of God reflect glory on one another. The glory of one attribute cannot be manifested, as it is, without the manifestation of another. One attribute is defective without another, and therefore the manifestation will be defective. Hence it was the will of God to manifest all his attributes. The declarative glory of God in Scripture is often called God's name, because it declares his nature. But if his name does not signify his nature as it is, or does not declare any attribute, it is not a true name. The sovereignty of God is one of his attributes, and a part of his glory. The glory of God eminently appears in his absolute sovereignty over all creatures, great and small. If the glory of a prince be his power and dominion, then the glory of God is his absolute sovereignty. Herein appear God's infinite greatness and highness above all creatures. Therefore it is the will of God to manifest his sovereignty. And his sovereignty, like his other attributes, is manifested in the exercises of it. He glorifies his power in the exercise of power. He glorifies his mercy in the exercise of mercy. So he glorifies his sovereignty in the exercise of sovereignty.
Without going into the depth of this doctrine at the present ~ Jim, there is no such doctrine as eternal suffering as long as God is God ~ if you mean by eternal condemnation that thee is no reversal of this condemnation, then I agree. The wicked are cast into the lake of fire, which is the "second" death, where they shall perish .
Jim, consider this ~ why do not men say almost nothing about the angels that sinned and God provided no salvation for any of them, not one of them? After all, they were created higher than man, yet no salvation provided for any of them.... Why? Is this fair? Could not God have created this world without any of them? Why create them and only elected a few of them? Even so Father, for so it seemed good in thy sight!
Jim one more thought that just came to me ~ why in the larger portion of the scriptures (OT) God left most of the world to their own deceived hearts while revealing himself for the most part to Israel who was the least among the nations of the world from Abraham until Christ? Do you have a problem with this? If no, then why not? Does anyone have a problem with this?
The same could be said concerning just choosing Israel and leaving the world in darkness for two thousand years. God owe no man any thing, all are at his mercy for their next breath of air.
Really, provide me scriptures to support your beliefs?
Revelation 4:11
“Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”Revelation 5:12
“Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.”@GodsGrace
You have never asked me to explain God's justice, are you having trouble being honest Miss Fran? but I will in morning first thing, count on this.
There is much you do not know~ and as far as using scriptures, pitiful!
Most of your post is babbling, nothing more, nothing even worth discussing.
So, tomorrow I will address two points of your twisted perverted post, and then I'm finish wasting my time with the prophetess from Italy ~ I'm surprise that you just do not go ahead and join with the great whore from Rome, since your doctrine is very similar to her concerning salvation from sin and condemnation, she would welcome you with open arms believing what you believe.
Actually, you have already joined up with her, in doctrine against God's word!
So it would seem that you think that God created and eternally condemns unbelievers for His pleasure. I don't think so.
Now, now Mr Red Baker. That is no way to treat a Lady. Granted, we've called you a heretic many times. That's because by definition you are one. Now I strongly suggest that you apologize for that unwarranted title and all those unwarranted things that you spewed out from your mouth.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
It's OK synergy.
Sooner or later the real calvinist nature comes to the surface.
When they feel threatened it's ad hominem time.
Thanks for the kind words.
Because you do not address the point
It states his sheep hear his voice and follow him, while your view is those who do not hear and do not follow may be his sheep
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Why does stating what justice means have to wait till the morning?
Don't you already know?
Read your own posts RB.
Your long posts explaining all your opinions are really long and also
difficult to reply to due to the length.
Getting to the point is always a good conversation method.
I find it interesting that you think the CC is the great whore.
Why?
Because YOU are following a belief system that was INVENTED by a Catholic!
I say invented, because it did not exist before him....and he came along in the 5th century.
I'm sure you must know about him...Augustine of Hippo.
So maybe YOU are following some type of Catholicism
BECAUSE
Even the CC cannot accept what Augustine taught!
Now ain't that something....
ANY system is better than the blasphemous system of Calvinism.
Catholicism has some doctrine wrong but at least they don't change the character of God.
Which is exactly what Calvinism does.
Just like YOU are a calvinist because you believe in Calvinism.
I've told you this several times.
As for me....I doubt I'll be joining up with ANY denomination any time soon...
although I know the doctrine of a few...including the CC.
Calvinists are a hateful bunch.
I think you need a break.
it's all that guy ever does.
MTMattie
Well-known member
Jim said:
The worst part is the thought that our loving Heavenly Father who sent
Jesus for us would actually create people to condemn them.
He created Lucifer to be so horrible? He created 1/3 of the angels to want to
follow Lucifer? And I suppose He created the demons that Jesus cast out of people ...
or were they just a by-product.
The worst part is the thought that our loving Heavenly Father who sent
Jesus for us would actually create people to condemn them.
He created Lucifer to be so horrible? He created 1/3 of the angels to want to
follow Lucifer? And I suppose He created the demons that Jesus cast out of people ...
or were they just a by-product.
Ironically, Augustine is considered a Father in the Catholic Church, and was the first in the church to deny free will and teach determinism.
Exactly! Aren't they all the same? When cornered by Bible verses, all Calvinists fall back into unbriddled emotionalism and they all vomit out unwarranted derogatory remarks. You should see what they called me at CARM. Their remarks should still be there, if they haven't white washed them already.
civic
Well-known member
We know our God does no such thing.
civic
Well-known member
I’m glad those days are behind us now. I don’t miss it over there at all.
The 10,000 post monumental Theard was fun. But that's what got us here.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The address was that those scriptures pertain to the elect. Also, Jesus Sheep do hear His Voice and follow Him, I have no problem with that verse I refer to it often
