Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[TedT]

...or one is born again when by their redemption and the grace of the Holy Spirit their free will is re-established and they can start their training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...

???????????????????????????????????

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

 

[atpollard]

No I never said a person is always born again. The elect are not born naturally born again of God.

Sorry, I stand corrected.
So WHEN are they “born again” in the whole process from “foreknown” to “glorified”?

• Before or after they first hear?
• Before or after they believe?
• Before or after they repent and are baptized (like Acts 2)?
• Before or after they receive the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing their inheritance?

 

[atpollard]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

Don’t sigh … it was an impressive typo. Let’s see “spellcheck” do that! People are still better than AI!

 

[Blessed]

Respectfully, the essence of "Calvinist" salvation is:
"I [God] will have mercy on whom I [God] have mercy, and I [God] will have compassion on whom I [God] have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9:15-16 [ESV]

The essence of FREE WILL salvation is:
In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. - Judges17:6; 21:25 [ESV]

That's just what I was talking about it's all cockeyed. Calvinism can boast of its extremely logical systematic theology, along with an impressive pedigree of adherents over the centuries who argue for its biblical foundation all daylong. However, they don't have a firm biblical foundation and it's irrational.

If our actions are predetermined, it raises questions about moral accountability for sin.

The idea that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation challenges notions of fairness and justice. That sounds like a pagan god.

Calvinism selectively interprets scripture to support its doctrines. Words like “world” and “whoever believes” are twisted to fit their doctrines

 

[TomL]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

No problem

 

[TomL]

No I don't. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit and it won't change my friend Gal 5:22

You ignore the scripture that shows faith is needed before one receives the Spirit.

 

[Blessed]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

You could have fooled me. I thought it was some more cockeyed Calvinism teaching. I was going to rebuke it with a sharp disapproval or criticism.

 

[brightfame52]

Before or after they first hear?

Before they hear, see Jesus told us who it is that hears the words of God in a spiritual sense Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

To be of God I understand to be born of God

 

[brightfame52]

You ignore the scripture that shows faith is needed before one receives the Spirit.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, new birth

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, new birth

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored scripture again.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22 if you don't have the spirit you have no faith

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22 if you don't have the spirit you have no faith

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored scripture again.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.