An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
I don't remember really ever discussing "perseverance of the saints" specifically before. I have always considered it to be the same as OSAS.
You seemed to agree with @Dizerner that OSAS was Satan's lie. I thought that was interesting.
Of course. The phrase, "that not of yourselves", is not a reference to faith; rather it is a reference to the entire phrase, "by grace are ye saved through faith". That is, salvation is the gift, and that gift is by grace through faith. We know that by the grammatical construction of the Greek.
I will leave it at that for now.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Okay so you have confirmed that your faith according to unregenerate flesh plays a role in Salvation by Grace. Thats works salvation and condemned by scripture. See Faith to believe in Salvation is by Grace, not the flesh. Paul says believers believed/faith through Grace Acis 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
civic
Well-known member
correct
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
You do not believe Lord Jesus Christ's words recorded in John chapter 3 because the work of believing in the Son whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) is for every Christian “that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21), but you believe that believing is the work of your flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).
Lord Jesus Christ makes absolutely clear that every occurrence of believing in God referred to by the Word of God as recorded in John chapter 3 is by God's Grace alone. We Christians are saved by God's grace, for God's glory! Praise be to the Holy One who said "It is finished" on the cross!
The Apostle Paul wrote “by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10); therefore, the Holy Spirit inspired writing declares “faith, and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10), but you deny this blessing by your believing that your flesh worked to point your belief/faith at Jesus instead of you believing that belief/faith in Jesus is "His work" (Ephesians 2:10).
As a matter of fact, you do believe the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) and you are a producer of the traditions of men as per your closing paragraph of "Chose this day".
YHWH God is never indicated as among the choices for a human's ability to "Chose this day" in Holy Scripture, but your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) thoughts that YHWH God is among the choices for a human's ability to "Chose this day" is your fraudulent Free-willian Philosophy - you are desperately denying the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) which was declared to you in the post to which you replied.
Again, you laugh at the Christian's revered subject of salvation with your wicked "lol"!
I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6), so you calling me a follower of "Fstalism" (see your 3rd from closing paragraph starting with "lol") means that you are calling my Leader Jesus your wicked "fatal", a.k.a. "death", and no Christian applies death to Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ is Life!
With my brother Paul, I say "If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness" (url=https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/11-30.htm]2 Corinthians 11:30[/url]). I have publicly declared and I do so again right now, I am, in my own initiative, a weak wretch saved from the wrath of God by the Power of God (url=https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/1-24.htm]1 Corinthians 1:24[/url]).
You believe you are saved by the power of you.
Your writing of "God saved me" is not what you really believe since you believe "man must still chose to use (belief in Christ)" according to the power of your flesh (proof post #5,816), then you believe not "I have been saved by grace period" (proof post #5,989) because your two combined statements of your heart nullify the Word of God which was proclaimed to you in the post to which you replied “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
The Christ of us Christians declares “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21), but you believe "man must still chose to use (belief in Christ)" (proof post #5,816); therefore, you believe you came to Christ as a work of Eternally-Grateful for which you boast of your self-willed work that you think saved you yet you actually revile the authority of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (2 Peter 2:9-10); in contrast, Lord Jesus says I came to Christ as a work of God for which I am eternally grateful to God for the saving Grace of God regarding this blessed work of God that I believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!
Lord Jesus Christ made absolutely clear that every occurrence of believing in God referred to by the Word of God as recorded in John chapter 3 is by God's Grace alone. We Christians are saved by God's grace, for God's glory! Thanks be to God for the cleansing Blood of Christ!
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
No, that is not works salvation. You really don't understand God's grace. You really don't understand works. That is one of the serious flaws of Reformed Theology. God's grace as it is used int Acts 18:27 is one of God's attributes. It is not a gift limited to only some but not others. And the works that Paul spoke about in passages such as Romans 3:20 are works of law, not just something that is done. Eating is a work; it is not a work of law. Breathing is a work; it is not a work of law. Believing is a work; it is not a work of law.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I do believe that someone that is saved can be rejected by God. However, this does not happen from committing sin. It comes from abandoning faith.
Sinning isn't a disqualifying event. The chastening of sons is proof of this. There is even a sin unto death where saints are taken out of this world because of their sin. However, I don't believe this is a disqualifying event.
What does disqualify believers is the same abandonment of faith that Israel experienced individually in the OT. If God spared not Israel, He will not spare those who abandon their faith now.
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Yawn
Your the one boasting how God chose you above all these other people not me.
You need to look inside my friend
Jesus was clear.
1. You must be born again
2. We are born again by faith in the cross.
3. Paul tells us how. For by Grace we have been saved (THROUGH faith)
Paul and Jesus are in agreement
You appear to have a massive hearing problem
I have never denied grace is the means of salvation.
once agin
FOR IT IS BY GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED (a completed action.)
No one deserves salvation. One who is offered the gift by God paid for by his blood and receives it is saved. And they did not earn it. This is a ridiculous statement.
Paul also said THROUGH FATIH. NOT OF OURSELVES IT (SALVATION) is the gift of God not of works.
Faith is not a work..
Faith is what or who we trust
do we trust self?
our works?
or God
I am sorry this is so difficult for some people to fathom
Yes, MY FAITH IS IN HIS WORK> NOT MY OWN.
dude, now you approaching slanders waters. I would back up if I were you
lol.. one thing is obvious. You put more faith in the men who taught you this stuff. than you do God.
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
There is no action involved
not by works of righteousness which we have done (actions) but by his mercy he saved us
for by grace we have been saved, through faith (not actions)
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
if so. he would have to reject himself. It is his promise and his work that saved them
John said they were never of us
You do not just stop having faith in the God who saved you. and stop your repentance to repent back to where you were.
But many claim to have faith./ but return to their vomit. because their faith was not real
brightfame52
Well-known member
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Calvinism didn't originate this belief. Neither did Augustine. Israel believed this long before anyone else.
Like Israel, they abandoned their faith. They were divorced and cast aside. Individually, those who keep the faith remained in fellowship with God.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Would you disagree with Romans 11?
Israel as a whole did. Individually they didn't. There remained a remnant. The same is true today. That remnant is based upon the willingness of the slave.
Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
I've meet a few in my life that completely abandoned any sense of faith in Jesus Christ. Pastors. Teachers that were convinced by Satan to abandon God. They might "come back".... who knows.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you learn more of God as you live your life here? Does that change how you react to God?
Salvation is always about Grace. If it were not for Grace, salvation wouldn't even exist. The idea that Grace is only for a few is contrary to God's nature.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
What is the "Fiery Trial" Peter mentioned????
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
It is a trail of our very faith......
If you can receive it. This is almost exactly what happened to Adam.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
It is a trail of our very faith......
If you can receive it. This is almost exactly what happened to Adam.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Faith is also generational.
We pass our faith to others.
Faith to faith.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.
Lois and Eunice passed the fiery trail of faith.
We pass our faith to others.
Faith to faith.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.
Lois and Eunice passed the fiery trail of faith.
