An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Im not conflating nothing, faith/believing is a work. And I know you condition a persons salvation on their faith/believing actions, so you preach a false gospel of salvation by works !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Actually it is, Faith was demanded by the Law Matt 2323
23;Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
And besides that, all salvation by works is evil and against Grace
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Dizerner
Well-known member
Absurd. There's no such thing as God's grace coming to unbelievers before they believe, absolutely absurd.
Grace in the Bible is defined as something you can RESIST. That by definition can't be "irresistible."
"Do not receive the grace of God in vain."
Calvinist Bible Version: "If God's grace is received it CANNOT be in vain."
"If today you hear his voice harden not your heart."
Calvinst Bible Version: "If today you hear his voice God will either harden your heart or soften it and you have nothing to do with it."
"While you have the light walk in the light."
Calvinist Bible Version: "While you have the light God will force you to walk in the light because his light never fails."
Of course... the literally say ten entire plagues destroy their country giving them ample opportunity to know YHWH was real and repent.
Of course. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, striving every day to convince the people, a grace unto them.
I hope you can stay warm at night burning all your straw men.
Interesting that you define God's grace as "a little assistance." I find that disrespectful and insulting to the grace of God.
Yes, they are more on the hyper side. I respect Hyper Calvinism more as it is more logically consistent.
If you want to start a new thread go ahead.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Your own mouth condemned you,
You said
Thats a work, Paul used the greek word ergon/work:
- any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
- an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
You condemned yourself
MTMattie
Well-known member
IOW they do not believe the scriptures.they don't believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the dead cannot hear in their unbiblical teaching. so the corpse must be brought back to the land of the living so they can hear and respond. night of the living dead theology- the zombie apocalypse.
MTMattie
Well-known member
@Dizerner @Red Baker
Ill back off. Hope other do too as this would be a worthy debate if not interrupted....
What do y'all say?
Please provide scriptures where God shows grace to his enemies, which all men in their unregenerate state are, in order to bring them to a place to "help/cause them to come to him to be saved" ~ using the terminology of men who teach that sinners can have faith, repent without first being quickened to life by the Spirit of God. If, as you claim is absurd, then you should have no problem of heaping many scriptures on me to support your teaching. It is wishful thinking on part at best, at worse, it is a corruption of God word, which is very serious to be guilty of.
Unregenerate sinners always resist the Spirit of God, until one is born of God, then they have power not to do so.
Acts 7:51
“Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”Here you are quoting scriptures written to believers who at times can be guilty of such sins. Show me scriptures where God uses graces to "lure, prepare, sinners to come to him by their own free will without God first quickening them so do so. You cannot do so.
Is this the best you can do?
Hebrews 11:7
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”God warned Noah, not the world of the ungodly, though he could have, but chose not to do so, except having Noah being a witness of their unbelief, by which they were condemned as children without faith.
Do you believe that God removing the wheels off of the chariots of the Egyptians was an act of mercy to them to cause them to seek him? You must.
I glory in the grace of God
Grace saved an Areopagite named Dionysius from the foolish wisdom of the Greeks (Acts 17:34). Grace saved Bathsheba and David from certain death and gave them Solomon (II Sam 12:13,24). Grace saved Cornelius from Roman superstition and a wasted life with the Italian band (Acts 10). Grace saved David from the errors and sins of his house to have the royal Seed (II Sam 23:1-5). Grace saved Esther from an orphanage in a strange land to become the victorious Queen of Persia. Grace saved the Family of the Philippian jailor in one great night of evangelism (Acts 16:25-34). Grace saved the Gadarene from a Legion of devils that had tormented him terribly (Mark 5:1-20). Grace saved Hezekiah from certain death to live another 15 years as king of Israel (Isaiah 38:1-22). Grace saved Israel out of Egypt, Babylon, and countless other dangers they deserved (Ps 78:36-38). Grace saved Joanna, the wife of Herod’s steward Chuza, to follow Jesus Christ (Luke 8:3; 24:10). Grace saved Lydia in Philippi and opened her heart to attend to the preaching of Paul (Acts 16:14) Grace saved Mary Magdalene from seven devils and caused Jesus to appear to her first (Mark 16:9). Grace saved Nathaniel while under a fig tree and skeptical of a man from Nazareth (John 1:45-51). Grace saved Noah and his family from the Flood that suffocated humanity with water (Gen 6:8). Grace saved Peter from his great grief after denying his Lord three times in one night (Mark 16:7). Grace saved Rahab the harlot and her house and gave her a place in Christ’s lineage (Matthew 1:5). Grace saved Saul of Tarsus from his great zeal against Jesus to be the greatest apostle (Gal 1:15-16) Grace saved a Thief that one hour was railing against Jesus to beg for His mercy (Luke 23:40-43). Grace saved a Woman of Samaria, who had already had five men and was living with the sixth. Grace saved Zacchaeus, after spotting him in a sycamore tree and changing his heart (Luke 19:1-10).
Consider the power of Grace: Grace saved us to Believe the gospel, as many as were ordained to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48). Grace saved us from Blindness by opening our eyes to see the precious things of Christ (Acts 26:18). Grace saved us from the man of sin by choosing us to salvation from the beginning (2nd Thess 2:13). Grace saved us from Death that we so perfectly deserve in Adam and in ourselves (2nd Tim 1:10). Grace saved us from Flesh by giving us a new birth by the Spirit to be sons of God (John 1:13; 3:6). Grace saved us to Heaven by appointing us a place where we will dwell with Christ (John 14:1-3). Grace saved us from Hopelessness by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (I Cor 15:19). Grace saved us from Justice by justifying us freely through Jesus Christ (Romans 3:24; Titus 3:7). Grace saved us from Lake of Fire by writing our names in the Lamb’s Book of Life (Rev 20:11-15). Grace saved us from Lies in our right hand, for we were as blind and pagan as any (Isaiah 44:20). Grace saved us to Obey the will of God, for He worked to will and to do into us first (Phil 2:12-13). Grace saved us from Satan and his kingdom power and reign over us (Acts 26:18; Colossians 1:9). Grace saved us from Works by showing us clearly that salvation was without them at all (Eph 2:9).
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Thank you.
MTMattie
Well-known member
then stop reading me. Just put me on ignor
MTMattie
Well-known member
FAITH COMES (DRUM ROLL PLEASE) BY HEARING ..... ROMANS 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Not to be ignored....
Amplified Bible
So faith comes from hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the [preaching of the] message concerning Christ.
Christian Standard Bible
So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.
American Standard Version
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Contemporary English Version
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.
English Revised Version
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
So faith comes from hearing the message, and the message that is heard is what Christ spoke.
Good News Translation
So then, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message comes through preaching Christ.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Then I cant see that what you post is anti scriptural
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah its right, you denying it wont make it not right,
Faith comes because of Grace Acts 18:27
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
BTW Hearing is because of Grace. Man cannot hear spiritually unless they are born of God Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
And you reject the word of God
MTMattie
Well-known member
Quoted scripture is anti scriptural.
Interesting logic and interpretation.
Ill help you out.
Consider yourself ignored.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah, if you cant stand the heat get out the kitchen
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Dude, I have tried to be nice. But if your going to continually ignore john 3, I will do like I have in every other thread.
John 17 is about those saved,Not those who are not yet saved.
Your showing your bias and complete misunderstandind Of God and his LOVE and his salvation
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
lol.. This shows you are unreachable.
I will do as I usually do. And put you in my prayer bin
Dizerner
Well-known member
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son (Rom. 5:10 NKJ)
Brother, I can show you a thousand verses and you will just deny each and every one.
Because your presuppositions are so strong, you cannot read the text for what it says, but you must read it to fit into your theology.
Before we go any further please read the following two defenses of free will from this very thread:
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Talk about bearing false witness.
We do not believe this at all.
Do you have some actual meat to share with us?
