An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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Eternally-Grateful
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Dizerner
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I don't think that's really necessary.
It's not that hard to just refer to the last quoted post.
civic
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yep and He said if anyone is WILLING to come let him and that it was THEIR faith which saved them.
next fallacy and abuse of scripture.
civic
Well-known member
and add to them
civic
Well-known member
Exactly brother
Eternally-Grateful
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Question. How come there are always threads about Calvinism vs Arminianism? What about those of of us who reject both arminian and calvinistic teachings? (And I am not talking about catholic)
Dizerner
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There's always been plenty of threads for the proverbially third-wheelers.
But as a committed Classical Arminian, what problems do you find with it.
MTMattie
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Two things you can take to the bank.
The predestined people and the anti-trin people will follow wherever they sense a a belief is not to their liking.
civic
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Its a popular online discussion on forums and highly debatable and controversial. Many of us came from a forum called carm and it was always in the top 2/3 daily topics that had the most activity. I'm neither a calvinist ( I was for 40 plus years ) and left it a few years ago and I'm not an arminian although I line up way closer to them than I do calvinism. But unlike the other forum which was between the two groups you would get kicked out of there whereas here you can participate in any forum without restrictions because of your belief system.
civic
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@Dizerner and @TibiasDad are the most familiar here when it comes to Arminian beliefs and their distinctions. @Eternally-Grateful. Also I know calvinism better than most forum posters here and elsewhere who hold to those doctrines. I have to correct them allot and use their own beliefs against them exposing their contradictions. 
Dizerner
Well-known member
@Dizerner and @TibiasDad are the most familiar here when it comes to Arminian beliefs and their distinctions. @Eternally-Grateful. Also I know calvinism better than most forum posters here and elsewhere who hold to those doctrines. I have to correct them allot and use their own beliefs against them exposing their contradictions.
Yep, TibiasDad is a Wesleyan Arminian which is almost identical to Classical, very small differences.
brightfame52
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See how you reject the truth
brightfame52
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You in the dark friend
brightfame52
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Now you going to judge me
Eternally-Grateful
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Glad to meet you. I will be honest I am not sure I have met to many arminians
To me I see that if anyone rejects OSAS. They are classified Arminians, If they REJECT NOSAS and believe in OSAS they are classified calvinist.
And then the debates go on and on and on.
When 99 percent of the time I have been involved. They are neither
I would probably be more arminian (I believe in unlimited atonement and
Armenians 5 points
Free will - totally agree
Conditional election - do not totally agree.. We are saved by grace, but through faith. So you could say faith is a condition. But when you make it a condition. It is something you must do to merit salvation
Universal redemption 0 Agree, jesus died for the world
Holy Spirit can be resisted. Agree. But nonsensical to me, only unless yoru arguing against a calvinist. As a believer I would not even consider this argument or how anyone could think otherwise.
Fall from grace (salvation can be lost) totally reject. Just as adamantly as I reject tht we can persevere to the end. Salvation can not be earned, thus it can not be lost. So to say we can lose it, is nonsensical. And to say we must persevere to keep it (ironically this is not what the calvinist believes. But this is what they say) is just as nonsensical
Thats wht I mean
Not everyone who believes in eternal security is a calvinist, and not everyone who believes salvation can be lost its an arminian
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
I am not against the debate, i just think it causes more harm than good. Lets discuss the word.
As you can see here @brightfame52 some people are so against anything else they can not properly discuss anything with anyone.. it may start off cordial. But it ends up in a mess (as we see here)
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Another reason.@Dizerner and @TibiasDad are the most familiar here when it comes to Arminian beliefs and their distinctions. @Eternally-Grateful. Also I know calvinism better than most forum posters here and elsewhere who hold to those doctrines. I have to correct them allot and use their own beliefs against them exposing their contradictions.
It’s like dispensational thinking, most people who are against it. Do not even know what we believe.
I am sure it is the same with calvin vs arminian. i am honest when I say I do not know much about arminian beliefs.. Just what I have been told..
Dizerner
Well-known member
Yeah, I think that's honestly a big part of the problem. There is just not a lot of informed Arminians out there and so much misinformation being spread around by people who put no effort into learning. Calvinists have been particularly bad spreading misinformation about Arminianism.
This is sort of the popular uneducated stereotype spread about online. In actual fact, OSAS is considered within the larger umbrella of Arminianism. Almost no one I've met even knows that Arminius himself believed in OSAS, although he had real doubts about it. Later on his followers decided against it when they formulated their 5 points. However, OSAS itself was birthed out of the logic of Calvinism, and no one in the history of the church really believed in it except the Gnostics, until Calvinism took hold and spawned this belief with their mistaken logic that any action must necessarily be an attempt to merit something.
Please see this study here to clear up that confusion:
OSAS is an incredibly evil and wicked deception that has swept through the church spawned from the virus of Calvinism. I would encourage very serious prayer for someone who has allowed this deception into their life, as it can cause real harm. The warnings of Scripture, the witness of Christians with better fruit than us falling away, the testimony of the Spirit to our hearts, and the twisted and convoluted false logic of Calvinism, all instruct as to turn away from such a grave error misleading so many to hell. It is simply a false and twisted understanding of what grace means to insist it must eliminate our free will and remove our ability to choose to follow the Lord or walk away from him.
I do recommend the documentary on YouTube, even though I have some disagreements with it, it brings out some very important points.
Thanks for your answer. Peace and respect in Christ.
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