An Article on free will

TibiasDad said:
New International Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

New Living Translation
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

English Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Berean Study Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

New American Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NASB 1995
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NASB 1977
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Amplified Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Christian Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


Contemporary English Version
God's Spirit makes us loving, happy, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful,

Good News Translation
But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

International Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

NET Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,

King James Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

New King James Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


Only one of the more modern translations follows the KJV; even the NKJV says Faithfulness is the intended meaning of πίστις in Gal 5:22.

As has been amply mentioned by others, the fruits of the Spirit are qualitative aspects of the Christian believer, and they are not intended to represent the nature of one coming to Christ initially.

Initial faith being placed in Christ is not the same thing as the character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of believing!


Doug
Click to expand...

You neglected the Greek original:
​
Ὁ δὲ καρπὸς τοῦ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἀγάπη, χαρά, εἰρήνη, μακροθυμία, χρηστότης, ἀγαθωσύνη, πίστις,​
​

See, the final word used by the Apostle Paul in the Galatians 5:22 verse is exactly πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity), but the word that Paul used is not πιστός (Strong's 4103 - pistos - Faithful, trustworthy, reliable, believing); therefore, every English translator that you presented which used "faithfulness" created a mistranslation.

The word "faithful" literally means "full of faith", and your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) of limiting Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing to your "character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of believing" results in your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) adulteration as detailed in the following.

The translation in Truth (John 14:6) is on the right Righteous side while your twisted translation is on the left wrong side:
The Book of TibiasDadThe Book of Galatians
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, the character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of man free-will pointing his faith at Christ, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(TibiasDad 5:22-23)		the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23)
so faith/belief in Christ inside of us Christians is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God. Praise be to God!!!

Therefore, faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a Fruit of the Spirit, the work of God, without ever being your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), TibiasDad, for the King of Glory declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Free-willians idolize themselves for in the free-willian heart lies the deception that faith is the work of the free-willian's flesh, and "the works of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21).

FAITH/BELIEF INSIDE OF US CHRISTIANS IS EXCLUSIVELY THE WORK OF GOD (JOHN 6:29, EPHESIANS 2:8-10, ACTS 15:8-9), GALATIANS 5:22-23).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
 
Kermos said:
You neglected the Greek original:
​
Ὁ δὲ καρπὸς τοῦ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἀγάπη, χαρά, εἰρήνη, μακροθυμία, χρηστότης, ἀγαθωσύνη, πίστις,​
​

See, the final word used by the Apostle Paul in the Galatians 5:22 verse is exactly πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity), but the word that Paul used is not πιστός (Strong's 4103 - pistos - Faithful, trustworthy, reliable, believing); therefore, every English translator that you presented which used "faithfulness" created a mistranslation.

The word "faithful" literally means "full of faith", and your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) of limiting Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing to your "character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of believing" results in your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) adulteration as detailed in the following.

The translation in Truth (John 14:6) is on the right Righteous side while your twisted translation is on the left wrong side:
The Book of TibiasDadThe Book of Galatians
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, the character of being faithful as a result of growth in the Spirit which follows that initial experience of man free-will pointing his faith at Christ, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(TibiasDad 5:22-23)		the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23)
so faith/belief in Christ inside of us Christians is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God. Praise be to God!!!

Therefore, faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a Fruit of the Spirit, the work of God, without ever being your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), TibiasDad, for the King of Glory declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Free-willians idolize themselves for in the free-willian heart lies the deception that faith is the work of the free-willian's flesh, and "the works of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21).

FAITH/BELIEF INSIDE OF US CHRISTIANS IS EXCLUSIVELY THE WORK OF GOD (JOHN 6:29, EPHESIANS 2:8-10, ACTS 15:8-9), GALATIANS 5:22-23).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
Click to expand...
nice strawman- faith in that passage is given to those who are already saved. you lack the teaching which comes only from the Holy Spirit to understand and discern the bible.

next fallacy.
 
Dizerner said:
I kind of see it like a grace sandwich.

Some Grace -> Faith -> More Grace.

This is why we are given and gifted faith by the grace of God.
Click to expand...
But everyone has the ability to trust

So that sort of rules this out.

He who believes vs he who does not believe.

That is what seperates the condemned from the non condemned

Again, look to moses and the serpent. Who was saved vs who was not. They all had the opportunity to recieve Grace
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith comes because of Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:
The word through is the prep dia and means:
  1. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account
Click to expand...
But it is offered to everyone.

Not just to some.
 
civic said:
nice strawman- faith in that passage is given to those who are already saved. you lack the teaching which comes only from the Holy Spirit to understand and discern the bible.

next fallacy.
Click to expand...
lol/ Yep. They both made the same mistake

Spiritual gifts are given to those who have the Holy Spirit. Not those who are still dead in sin, they must be justified first.
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith comes because of Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:
The word through is the prep dia and means:
  1. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account
Click to expand...
You can post the same stuff over and over it does nt make it true

We are saved by grace. But only through faith

Everyone is offered grace. Jesus did nto come to judge but that the world may be (might have the opportunity) to be saved

He who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned already

Stop giving God a bad name, by claiming he refuses to give all people the opportunity to be saved by grace
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
But everyone has the ability to trust
Click to expand...

I do not have the ability to trust in Santa Claus. Because I don't think he's real.

So I think you are overstating the case, and making belief a natural thing, when it is a supernatural thing.

If faith is the work of God is that a miracle do you think?

Again. Faith is not a work.
Click to expand...

You're equivocating on works again.

What KIND of works.
 
HOW is it possible to have faith when you have not heard the word?

You believe God regenerates people and then gives them faith? HOW? The people never had a chance to hear or read about it so this faith just miraculously changes what people think and believe? "FAITH COMES BY HEARING" ... THAT IS BIBLICAL YET THESE FOLKS DID NOT HAVE THAT CHANCE.

One gets born again and bingo.. there's the faith.? Poppycock. When did those people have a chance TO HEAR what it was all about?

Even the jailer had to have things explained before he accepted and was then baptized. He and his entire family that had no children.
 
MTMattie said:
HOW is it possible to have faith when you have not heard the word?

You believe God regenerates people and then gives them faith? HOW? The people never had a chance to hear or read about it so this faith just miraculously changes what people think and believe? "FAITH COMES BY HEARING" ... THAT IS BIBLICAL YET THESE FOLKS DID NOT HAVE THAT CHANCE.

One gets born again and bingo.. there's the faith.? Poppycock. When did those people have a chance TO HEAR what it was all about?

Even the jailer had to have things explained before he accepted and was then baptized. He and his entire family that had no children.
Click to expand...
they don't believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the dead cannot hear in their unbiblical teaching. so the corpse must be brought back to the land of the living so they can hear and respond. night of the living dead theology- the zombie apocalypse. :)
 
Kermos said:
You neglected the Greek original:
​
Ὁ δὲ καρπὸς τοῦ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἀγάπη, χαρά, εἰρήνη, μακροθυμία, χρηστότης, ἀγαθωσύνη, πίστις,​
​

See, the final word used by the Apostle Paul in the Galatians 5:22 verse is exactly πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity), but the word that Paul used is not πιστός (Strong's 4103 - pistos - Faithful, trustworthy, reliable, believing); therefore, every English translator that you presented which used "faithfulness" created a mistranslation.
Click to expand...
Strong's 4102 - pistis - Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

From Dictionary.com: fidelity - faithfulness.

You can look it up.
 
Dizerner said:
That's sad that you have hardened your heart in the deception of Calvinism for 50 years.

At that point there's probably not much I can do any more.

If there is a tiny glimmer of humility in your heart and willingness to listen, read this explanation of why Calvinism is wrong:

Dizerner

Post in thread 'The Gospel Of Salvation'

@brightfame52 @Kermos @Presby02

*Why Calvinism is a bad thing and I reject it as false.*

I reject Calvinism for a lot of sound reasons (that I explain later on below), but I found many people gravitate towards the wrong reasons for rejecting Calvinism where in fact the Calvinist is actually more correct than they are; this muddies the waters, because then it becomes a partial confused truth, and one error trying to correct another. So first are the 2 reasons I do NOT reject Calvinism, followed by the 5 reasons I DO.

_1. Calvinism is not wrong because God does not have...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Dizerner, It would be impossible to have a profitable discussion one on one in this thread, with so many folks giving their two cent worth. It would be nice for you to consider starting a thread to debate this subject with me, and keep it one on one so it would not get all mess up with others shooting their one liners into the discussion.

We can use this verse:

1 Peter 5:12​

“By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.”

You spoke of
Dizerner said:
We call that Preceding Grace.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as "Preceding grace"~but, you are welcome to prove this and I'll come and debate this subject with you, no problem. The scriptures speaks of:

Romans 11:5​

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”

You have invented a grace unknown to the word of God. Give me proof of what you are saying. Did God show preceding grace to the Egyptians before he destroyed them in the Red sea? Did God show preceding grace to those he destroyed with a flood, or did Noah alone find grace in the eyes of the Lord? You probably believe God had a banner on the side of the Ark, which said: "Smile, God loves you" Is that the kind of preceding grace you are speaking about? I can show you many cases/examples of elected grace, but never preceding grace that is taught In Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Arminian theology, prevenient grace is seen as a predisposing or enabling grace that assists all individuals in coming to faith ~as though it is in their own power to come with a little assistance, by the pleading of the ministers/soul winners, etc. That's a serious corruption of the word of God~it goes against so many scriptures.

Btw, I'm not a Calvinist in the true sense of Calvinism. I'm of the old line Particular Baptist faith~that John Calvin would disagree with, even though I highly respect both Luther and Calvin for the work they did to reform the church overall during the Reformation period, in the early 1500's.

Just finished reading this book this week ~ an excellent book on the subject under consideration in this thread:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvin/The Bondage and Liberation of t - John Calvin.pdf
 
Last edited:
Eternally-Grateful said:
You can post the same stuff over and over it does nt make it true

We are saved by grace. But only through faith

Everyone is offered grace. Jesus did nto come to judge but that the world may be (might have the opportunity) to be saved

He who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned already

Stop giving God a bad name, by claiming he refuses to give all people the opportunity to be saved by grace
Click to expand...
Faith comes because of Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:
The word through is the prep dia and means:
  1. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account
 

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