Dizerner
Well-known member
I'm curious, would you say that faith was an act of the will?
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
I'm curious, would you say that faith was an act of the will?
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
I would say faith is not an act at all. it is something internal.
In faith we do this or that
I E what we trust (faith) causes our actions.
But in the vase of salvation, it is still not an action or a means of salvation.
Paul said it is by grace we have been saved. Period
But through faith, in other words, if I trust God, i will react and recieve this grace gift.
If I do not trust god. I will not react and recieve this grace gift. I will reject it in unbeliever, I will deny it in unbelief. Or in unbelief I will try to earn it by doing works (because my faith is in myself not God)
I had rather start another thread, but this should do for now. Truly this thread has run its course, but that's not up to me, but the moderators.
I've been on another forum for a while, and will, go back there, but I desire to post a few here to help the brethren out who are alone among a pack of wolves.
It is the act of the will, but of the new man, not the old! I have no problem applying the fruits of the Spirit to the will of the man post the new birth.
Adam was created after the image of Almighty God, which image he lost when he sinned, and not only Adam, but all who are of his posterity, born into this world having his fallen image, which image he had gotten through his disobedience to God's command ~ which image is void of true righteousness, spiritual wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.
Genesis 5:3
“And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”As I said: "I have no problem applying the fruits of the Spirit to the will of the man post the new birth."
Before the new birth, man is at enmity against God, he is not only God's enemy, but much more than that, he is at war with him, and this is true of every single man born through the generation of Adam. The scripture sis clear:
John 3:6
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”Flesh is spoken of in the scriptures as sinful and wicked "incapable of any spiritual acts," especially so, love and faith, which are two of the most spiritual fruits of the Spirit.
Romans 8:3
“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”Romans 8:7,8
“Because the carnal (fleshly) mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”One must first be born again, and then through the new man (where the Spirit of God lives) he can hear, believe and increase in faith, but not until then. If any man has not the Spirit of God, they are not of God, and are unable to truly believe and produce the fruits of the Spirit.
Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”One does not first believe and then get the Spirit, that is impossible, yet folks show their ignorance by believing in this lie, and truly they reveals themselves who they are and whom they serve. Selah
Last edited:
civic
Well-known member
How do you deal with many passages like this one about choosing to do His will, willing to do His will ?
And He is speaking to the unbelieving Jews.
John 7-
14Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. 15;The Jews there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learningwithout having been taught?” 16;Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.17;Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
A person can choose but still not have a freewill. So that scripture says nothing about a man has a freewill, in fact Joshua told them just a few verses later this Josh 24 19
19And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
What does that mean ? ye cannot serve the Lord ! Joshua says nothing about yall got a freewill
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man naturally is spiritually dead to God, he is in the flesh. Now natural man has faith and trust generated for a god of his understanding, but that's worthless to God, because its of the flesh, which cannot please God as Spirit generated Faith does,
Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
None of the religious , sincere efforts of the unregenerate in the flesh, can please the True God,
However the Faith that comes with regeneration, pleases God Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
This Faith pleases God because its from God, the Spirit.
The Spirit makes a person alive to the True God, otherwise, dead in the flesh, that faith is worthless and dead to God, and cannot please God
MTMattie
Well-known member
When did you first know you were born again? How did that knowing come to be?
civic
Well-known member
good question hopefully you will get an answer and not an avoidance of your question.
The Word of God is absolute Truth (John 14:6)! I believe in Lord Jesus Christ!
The Apostle John enjoins us Christians "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).
Testing your spirit, in your post, you launch empty accusations devoid of any Word of God against this Christian who believes in the Christ. Your spirit must be tested more.
Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
- if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.
The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you demand your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.
King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you demand your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):
And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.
(Mark 7:34-35)
The blessed filling of the Holy Spirit occurs before Pentecost with "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:41), yet your anti-truth ABSENCE OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE PENTECOST is your ungodly preaching as recorded in
post #5,718.
Your spirit makes false thoughts against the Holy Spirit of the Living God!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Yes, we are spiritually dead. And we must be made alive or be born again.
Jesus tells us how in John 3. By looking to the cross in faith. He who believes is not condemned
We are saved by grace period. But God will not just force it on you. He wants you to recieve it from him. No one will recieve it without faith. Faith comes from God but man must still chose to use it.
a dead person can not be made alive until we are justified. We are justified through or by faith.
civic
Well-known member
You cannot even explain in your own words what 1 John 4:1-4 even means. You qoute the bible with no understanding. The pharisees just like you did the same thing with Jesus.
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Wow. Anger issues?
This post is actually quite out there.
God is soverign amen,
A soverign God can do what ever he wants.
If he choses to save people who recieve him freely by faith. It is his will
For you or anyone else to attack someone who believe God is not a dictator who forces people to believe. And prevents others from even having any chance to believe. Well wow just wow
civic
Well-known member
ditto its an assault on the name and character of our Good God and His love for all mankind.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Aint no telling how to be born again, thats error. Was you told how to be born the first time ?
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
John 3: 9
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10;Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.14 ;And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so your "man must still chose to use (belief in Christ)" is falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
Um no
I believe I have been saved by grace period.
lol. John 3 refutes you also.. He who believes is not condemned.
God made the rules not me,
Dizerner
Well-known member
You cannot define failure without the stated goal that is failed. You are importing your own personal preferences as the goal of the atonement.
This is idolatry.
“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.” — Tozer
Dizerner
Well-known member
It seems you think the grace of God is not powerful enough to act upon the spiritually dead.
Does one have to be regenerate to be convicted of sin, since that is a "good" thing?
So no one unsaved can ever be convicted of their sin?
I hope you can see just how unbiblical and insulting to God's powerful grace that is.
8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 "of sin, because they do not believe in Me; (Jn. 16:8-9 NKJ)
Notice here that those who "do not believe" are the ones convicted.
We call that Preceding Grace.
Civc, I truly have no problem addressing any verse, for I know that the word of God has a perfect flow of truth the the scriptures cannot be broken, if a person can break another person argument, then that person does not have the truth.
Now if you quote a verse, the please quote it correctly, not doing so shows me that a person is corrupting scriptures to support their own biased teaching. The word of God said:
John 7:17
“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”Doing the will of God and choosing of one's own fallen nature are two different things altogether ~ if a person chooses to do the will of God, then as I said above, that's the new man within them, not the old Adamic fallen nature that one is born with, for that is impossible according to the scriptures quoted above from Romans 8. Why do not you, or one of your friend address Romans 8:1-9?
