An Article on free will

[civic]

Let's see what lame escape tactic @Kermos will use this time in order to dodge once again John's sacred words.

The basic grammar comprehension in John 1:12-13 has to be reworked, realigned, repackaged through the fatalist mindset to make it say something entirely different than what John made so clear and obvious. The eisegesis always accompanies the fatalists pov. Let God be true and every man made a liar. Amen !!!

 

[brightfame52]

Thank you for quoting John which clearly confirms that one must have actively "received him" and actively "believe in His name" so that "to them He gave the right to become children of God" by being "born...of God".

The heresy of Calvinism (regeneration before belief) just crashed and burned again right before your very eyes.

Will you continue to run away from John's sacred words in typical Calvinist fashion?

Actually Jn 1:12-13 explains why some did believe/receive Christ, because they were born of God. You are advocating they did it after the flesh, spiritually dead and enemies

 

[civic]

Actually Jn 1:12-13 explains why some did believe/receive Christ, because they were born of God. You are advocating they did it after the flesh, spiritually dead and enemies

no just the opposite. its because they refused to receive and believe in Him- He came to His own and His own received Him not.

next fallacy

 

[synergy]

Actually Jn 1:12-13 explains why some did believe/receive Christ, because they were born of God.

Did you read the words "to become children of God"?? That puts the "believe in His name" before one becomes a child of God (born of God). Do you understand English?

You are advocating they did it after the flesh, spiritually dead and enemies

John can't be wrong according to your accusation so there is something terribly wrong in your logic.

 

[brightfame52]

no just the opposite. its because they refused to receive and believe in Him- He came to His own and His own received Him not.

next fallacy

Sorry that scripture shows that the reason why they received Him was because they had been born of God, you saying they born and believed by the will of the flesh.

 

[civic]

Did you read the words "to become children of God"?? That puts the "believe in His name" before one becomes a child of God (born of God). Do you understand English?

John can't be wrong according to your accusation so there is something terribly wrong in your logic.

Ditto

 

[brightfame52]

Did you read the words "to become children of God"?? That puts the "believe in His name" before one becomes a child of God (born of God). Do you understand English?

John can't be wrong according to your accusation so there is something terribly wrong in your logic.

I know what it says, they received Christ when most didn't, was because they were born of God, if it wasn't for that, they too would receive Him not because they would be spiritually dead like the others.

Now they were given the ability /right to become the sons of God. The word power is the greek word exousia:

1. power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases
   
   1. leave or permission
2. physical and mental power
   1. the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises
3. the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)

So still it had nothing to do with their ability, choice, everything was given them, the right and power .
Commentary:

John 1:12 (KJB)But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Received - Take hold of, grasp, or obtainPower - Authority Those of Israel did not receive Him because they did not know Him. Now here John turns to a different aspect of receiving Him, In the previous verse, it was speaking of receiving Him as the Messiah on a national level but here John is now making the receiving of the Lord Jesus Christ a personal thing and not something which is done nationally. He now turns to the real way a person receives the Lord Jesus Christ and that is for salvation. When a person receives the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior, they are given the authority or the right, to claim that they are a child of God. It is one of the cardinal tenets of salvation. Now I have heard this verse used by many who believe in free will, that is, they believe that all you have to do is believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Now there is a problem with espousing such a belief. First of all, believing is a work which means that a person is doing a work to initiate their salvation and this is not taught in the Scriptures. Secondly, a person is spiritually dead so it will be impossible for a spiritually dead person to activate some type of belief. (Eph 2:5 KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved The dead can do only one thing and that is remain dead unless they are resurrected. There is only one way a person can receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior and that is a qualified response. First of all, a person becomes saved through grace and they receive it without asking for it. Secondly, that person is indwelled by the Holy Spirit and are given faith as a fruit of the Spirit. (Gal 5:22 KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Now that they have faith, they may believe because they are now spiritually alive. Faith is the basis of belief and only the saved person can believe since they are grounded in faith. The spiritually dead do not have faith since they are not indwelled by the Holy Spirit. This is why many who claim to be saved are not saved because their faith is sourced only in words and not in the Holy Spirit.

John 1:13 (KJB)​

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. This verse continues the thread from verse 12. Here is a clear statement that a person is not saved by any act of the flesh, which would be any type of work such as those under the law. Many even believe that a person can exercise their will to be saved, that is, a free will to be either accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ. The unbeliever already rejects the Lord Jesus Christ because of them being spiritually dead. They are in the same boat as the Pharisees, they did not receive Him because they did not recognize Him owing to spiritual deadness. The will of man is only limited to what he can do in the flesh and even that is severely limited. Have you ever seen anyone cure a cold by using their will? The will of man cannot cure a cold never mind will themselves into Heaven. However, this verse ends up stating that those who are born again, or saved, are saved by the will of God. It is God’s will who initiates salvation in the life of a believer. If God wills a person to be saved, then it will happen according to His timetable. I became saved at 27 years old. I wasn’t cognizant of being born again until God saved me. Salvation, then, is according to God’s will and no matter how many words a person says, they cannot save themselves. We only respond to what God initiates.https://www.scionofzion.com/gospel_of_john_1_11_15.htm

 

[MTMattie]

@Kermos



Absolutely Rev 3:7

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Fulfilled Isa 22:22

And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

This shows how Christ has the key, control of who is saved into His Kingdom, and who is not, so much for freewill salvation.

So much for predetermined selection. A lot of people missed out on that one....

and that predetermined was of the Father according to Calvin.. not Jesus...

So with the predetermined selection no one has any control. At least free will can decide to accept or reject what they here
because out faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

 

[brightfame52]

So much for predetermined selection. A lot of people missed out on that one....

and that predetermined was of the Father according to Calvin.. not Jesus...

So with the predetermined selection no one has any control. At least free will can decide to accept or reject what they here
because out faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

I dont understand you, you type anything

 

[civic]

I dont understand you, you type anything

I understood it just fine.

 

[brightfame52]

I understood it just fine.

i wuldnt doubt it lol

 

[MTMattie]

I dont understand you, you type anything

I dont understand you, you type anything

YOU wrote in reply #5597


This shows how Christ has the key, control of who is saved into His Kingdom, and who is not, so much for freewill salvation.

I emphasized part of what you wrote in bolded red. Do you understand that?

You further went on to suggest that those who are not saved is because of there freewill.

IF THAT WAS NOT WHAT YOU MEANT ... CLARIFY IT NOW.

I went on to say ~ reply 5608

"So much for predetermined selection. A lot of people missed out on that one....

and that predetermined was of the Father according to Calvin.. not Jesus...

So with the predetermined selection no one has any control. At least free will can decide to accept or reject what they here
because out faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Meaning that in PREDESTINAION, as is a current belief and a teaching of John Calvin, God does the choosing of who will be saved, and he also
will be the one to stop those not chosen by him (the reprobate) would actually be barred from salvation. IOW, not permitted.

Further
And it is thought that the predestination, where God Predetermines those who will be saved happened does not happen at birth, or even conception, but before creation.

YOU have no say. You have no choice. If your mother births you into a totally reprobate family and you are raised in that life, if per chance you finally realize there is something wrong... you cannot get out of it. The Karla Faye Tuckers never existed. DO you understand now?

 

[brightfame52]

YOU wrote in reply #5597


This shows how Christ has the key, control of who is saved into His Kingdom, and who is not, so much for freewill salvation.

I emphasized part of what you wrote in bolded red. Do you understand that?

You further went on to suggest that those who are not saved is because of there freewill.

IF THAT WAS NOT WHAT YOU MEANT ... CLARIFY IT NOW.

I went on to say ~ reply 5608

"So much for predetermined selection. A lot of people missed out on that one....

and that predetermined was of the Father according to Calvin.. not Jesus...

So with the predetermined selection no one has any control. At least free will can decide to accept or reject what they here
because out faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Meaning that in PREDESTINAION, as is a current belief and a teaching of John Calvin, God does the choosing of who will be saved, and he also
will be the one to stop those not chosen by him (the reprobate) would actually be barred from salvation. IOW, not permitted.

Further
And it is thought that the predestination, where God Predetermines those who will be saved happened does not happen at birth, or even conception, but before creation.

YOU have no say. You have no choice. If your mother births you into a totally reprobate family and you are raised in that life, if per chance you finally realize there is something wrong... you cannot get out of it. The Karla Faye Tuckers never existed. DO you understand now?

Im dont see your point, you all over the place. I set forth that Jesus Christ has absolute control on who will be saved and who will not be, thats His domain of control, not the freewill of man.

He adds to the church such as to be saved, not mans will Acts 2:47

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Its He who builds His Church and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it, meaning nobody He wills tobe saved, nothing can prevent it Matt 16 18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[MTMattie]

Im dont see your point, you all over the place. I set forth that Jesus Christ has absolute control on who will be saved and who will not be, thats His domain of control, not the freewill of man.

He adds to the church such as to be saved, not mans will Acts 2:47

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Its He who builds His Church and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it, meaning nobody He wills tobe saved, nothing can prevent it Matt 16 18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Those who need to know will understand.

 

[synergy]

I know what it says, they received Christ when most didn't, was because they were born of God,

Your English Comprehension is atrocious!

The words "to become children of God" puts these words in the future, after "believe in His name". Do you understand English?

 

[brightfame52]

Your English Comprehension is atrocious!

The words "to become children of God" puts these words in the future, after "believe in His name". Do you understand English?

They were children of God b4 they believed as they were Sheep before they believed. You are in the dark on these spiritual matters

 

[synergy]

They were children of God b4 they believed as they were Sheep before they believed. You are in the dark on these spiritual matters

So now you want to run away from John 1:12-13 as fast as your legs can carry you, I see. That is so typical of heretics like Calvinists. Here is John 1:12-13 again. Don't run away from it like a coward:

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Kermos]

They were children of God b4 they believed as they were Sheep before they believed. You are in the dark on these spiritual matters

@synergy believes that his free-will choosing to believe causes synergy to be born of God as per John 1:12-13, yet no one causes himself to be born of God.

@synergy does not believe the Apostle John for in John 1:12-13, synergy obliterated context in the order to impart his faulty Free-willian Philosophy. Let's get the full paragraph which the Apostle John wrote visible for accurate context:

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:9-13)
​

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message (Gospel) narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary narrowest foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which begets John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position, so John is in accord with Lord Jesus, the Christ of us Christians, who puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Clearly, @synergy takes exception to Lord Jesus Christ who says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[brightfame52]

So now you want to run away from John 1:12-13 as fast as your legs can carry you, I see. That is so typical of heretics like Calvinists. Here is John 1:12-13 again. Don't run away from it like a coward:

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Im not running. They were children of God before they believe, just like they were sheep before they believe. Thats why they believe, Jn 10:16,26

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So Sheep of Christ exist prior to them hearing His voice and believing

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

You have to be a Sheep to believe.

Now, also one has to be born of the Spirit before they can believe since believing is out of Faith which is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22,

before man is born of spirit, he has no faith and is dead in sin.

When a regenerated Sheep does believe, he doesnt become a Sheep, but is manifested as a Sheep, so likewise, when a regenerated child of God believes, they are manifested as a child of God.

You quoting scripture but you dont understand it, you dont have a clue.

 

[brightfame52]

@Kermos

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which begets John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John was consistent about being born of God before believing in the Son of God, 1 Jn 5:1

5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now believeth here is present tense as well as loveth, they are present tense participles, meaning whoever is presently believing and loving , hath been born of God. "is born of God" is Perfect passive indicative, meaning they had once and for all in the past born again, with results remaining unto the present, so believing and loving are simple evidences of having been born of God.

This basically what John wrote in his Gospel of John @ 1:12-13