An Article on free will

[Kermos]

You have a false gospel that Jesus disciples/ apostles warned us about.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You believe in your FAILURE ATONEMENT OF THE CHRIST as recorded in post #3,926.

Furthermore, you believe in your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD as recorded in post #5,496, so you believe anti-truth.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD!!!

 

[civic]

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You believe in your FAILURE ATONEMENT OF THE CHRIST as recorded in post #3,926.

Furthermore, you believe in your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD as recorded in post #5,496, so you believe anti-truth.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD!!!

Projecting again

 

[TibiasDad]

The Apostle Paul wrote faith, not faithfulness, in "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith," (Galatians 5:22) because the exact Greek word is πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com).

The Greek/English interlinear for Galatians 5:22 is on BibleHub.com via this link, and the noun of πίστις is clearly visible.

Faith is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God. Hallelujah!

Man does not point his faith from unbelief to belief in Lord Jesus.

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS!!!

πίστις. It is clear from the subordinate place here assigned to πίστις that it does not here denote the cardinal grace of faith in God which is the very root of all religion, but rather good faith in dealings with men, and due regard to their just claims. (Expositors New Testament Commentary)


Fidelity is the meaning here, which is the capacity to be faithful on a consistent basis, ie, faithfulness.


Doug

 

[civic]

πίστις. It is clear from the subordinate place here assigned to πίστις that it does not here denote the cardinal grace of faith in God which is the very root of all religion, but rather good faith in dealings with men, and due regard to their just claims. (Expositors New Testament Commentary)


Fidelity is the meaning here, which is the capacity to be faithful on a consistent basis, ie, faithfulness.


Doug

ditto

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos



Good catch, but Im thinking about only the non elect will still be under wrath since Christ didn't die for them and propitiate God in their behalf. Now the elect are never under Gods wrath, impossible unless God didnt accept Christs sacrifice for their sins, and we know He did because He raised Him up for their Justification.



The elect are reconciled to God by Christs Death even while they are unconverted and enemies, the reconciliation is solely premised on Christs death, not their spiritual condition.

I believe all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, but, as for the Chosen of God, we are reconciled by God at the time of God converting us into the children of God away from being the children of wrath - in this moment of conversion, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son (Romans 5:10) - we being enemies of God up to this moment of conversion. Please note, Romans 5:10 does not indicate a fixed time such as "we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son starting at the time when He was on the cross"; in fact, the word "through" means "because" thus Christ causes reconciliation using relative time reference to the intersection of the being enemies and the we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son. The present tense verb "being", according to the Greek inflection, makes the difference, but translations using the wrong tense (past tense) "were" can result in error.

Now, the mention of children of wrath returns to Ephesians 2:3 and the surrounding Ephesians chapter 2 passage which progresses from the children of wrath under the wrath of God to children of God under the Love of God. The children of wrath included the Apostle Paul himself per his own writing, and the children of wrath are under the wrath of God; otherwise, the wrath upon the children of wrath would be absent of God's authoritative sanction. In relation to God, there are children of wrath and children of God, which are mutually exclusive without anyone escaping inclusion inside one of the groups. Are you saying there is another "children of ..." that has no overlap with the children of wrath nor the children of God?

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SOVEREIGN KING JESUS!!!

 

[civic]

I believe all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, but, as for the Chosen of God, we are reconciled by God at the time of God converting us into the children of God away from being the children of wrath - in this moment of conversion, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son (Romans 5:10) - we being enemies of God up to this moment of conversion. Please note, Romans 5:10 does not indicate a fixed time such as "we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son starting at the time when He was on the cross"; in fact, the word "through" means "because" thus Christ causes reconciliation using relative time reference to the intersection of the being enemies and the we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son. The present tense verb "being", according to the Greek inflection, makes the difference, but translations using the wrong tense (past tense) "were" can result in error.

Now, the mention of children of wrath returns to Ephesians 2:3 and the surrounding Ephesians chapter 2 passage which progresses from the children of wrath under the wrath of God to children of God under the Love of God. The children of wrath included the Apostle Paul himself per his own writing, and the children of wrath are under the wrath of God; otherwise, the wrath upon the children of wrath would be absent of God's authoritative sanction. In relation to God, there are children of wrath and children of God, which are mutually exclusive without anyone escaping inclusion inside one of the groups. Are you saying there is another "children of ..." that has no overlap with the children of wrath nor the children of God?

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SOVEREIGN KING JESUS!!!

how many semesters in Seminary did you complete in New Testament Greek ?

 

[Kermos]

Same ole cut n paste. Sounds like an AI response

That was a newly composed post to you that you just lied about with your "Same ole cut n paste" regarding this indented section:

I see, so you adulterated faith out of the work of the Holy Spirit of God recorded in Galatians 5:22-23 into your heart's treasure of faith being a deed of the flesh in "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: faith, immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God" (civic 5:19-21).

This means your faith, which you believe is of your flesh, is a practice of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Anyone interested may follow this link to Galatians 5:19-21 on BibleGateway.com for the NASB, KJV, and YLT - the word faith is not in the passage of Galatians 5:19-21, yet the word faith is in the passage of Galatians 5:22-23!
​

You cannot righteously provide a reference link to a post prior to the content of post #5,559, indented above, that matches the content because it doesn't exist.

FAITH IS A FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (GALATIANS 5:22-23, BUT YOU BELIEVE FAITH IS A DEED OF THE FLESH (GALATIANS 5:19-21), SO YOUR FAITH IS NOT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3), so you cannot see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God righteously without first being born of God; in other words, you end up with falsehoods such as free-will ability to choose to believe in Jesus.

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29), so we Christians believe in Jesus because of God's work in us.

You launch falsehoods regarding a post that God caused me to post to @Burdock, and Burdock fails to respond in this thread with a notice to me regarding the same recent post.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS MY GOD!!!

 

[brightfame52]

@Kermos

I believe all unbelievers are under the wrath of God,

Impossible because the unbelieving elect have had Christ blood propitiate Him, and His Death has reconciled them to God.

, Romans 5:10 does not indicate a fixed time such as "we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son starting at the time when He was on the cross

They were reconciled to God while being enemies/unbelievers, by His Death, simple as that. You are depriving Christs Death of its satisfaction before Gods law and Justice appeasing His Just wrath. And Christs Death had virtue even b4 the Cross

according to the Greek inflection, makes the difference, but translations using the wrong tense (past tense) "were" can result in error.

were reconciled is past tense, 2 aorist passive voice. So its simple they were reconciled punctiliar past, while being [present tense] enemies.

 

[Kampioen]

God predetermined everything, so whats your point ?

Then you can't accuse Arminians of salvation by works.

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos



Impossible because the unbelieving elect have had Christ blood propitiate Him, and His Death has reconciled them to God.



They were reconciled to God while being enemies/unbelievers, by His Death, simple as that. You are depriving Christs Death of its satisfaction before Gods law and Justice appeasing His Just wrath. And Christs Death had virtue even b4 the Cross



were reconciled is past tense, 2 aorist passive voice. So its simple they were reconciled punctiliar past, while being [present tense] enemies.

Since we Christians are reconciled to God at the time we are converted from children of wrath to children of God (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 2:1-10), even using punctiliar past, then this is by God’s ordained plan - this I believe.

It's sad, you didn't answer the question that I asked with genuine interest in your response.

I don't plan to respond to this particular exchange in this thread any further.

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Then you can't accuse Arminians of salvation by works.

Sure I can since they do

 

[Kampioen]

Then you can't accuse Arminians of salvation by works.

Sure I can since they do

God's works or man's?

 

[brightfame52]

@Kermos

Since we Christians are reconciled to God at the time we are converted from children of wrath to children of God (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 2:1-10), even using punctiliar past, then this is by God’s ordained plan - this I believe.

Believers were reconciled to God while being by nature children of wrath and enemies, hating God, by His Death Rom 5:10

 

[Kermos]

πίστις. It is clear from the subordinate place here assigned to πίστις that it does not here denote the cardinal grace of faith in God which is the very root of all religion, but rather good faith in dealings with men, and due regard to their just claims. (Expositors New Testament Commentary)


Fidelity is the meaning here, which is the capacity to be faithful on a consistent basis, ie, faithfulness.


Doug

The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com); therefore, the exact concept is faith in Galatians 5:22-23. The Apostle Paul's list of Fruit of the Holy Spirit is exclusively nouns, even the exact Greek word is πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com), yet your heart converts the noun πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com) into an adjective of πιστός (Strong's 4103 - pistos - Faithful, trustworthy, reliable, believing- BibleHub.com) for you to adulterate the Holy Scripture into Free-willian Philosophy.

Let's return to where we left off. You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER OF LIFE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!

 

[civic]

God's works or man's?

crickets

 

[TibiasDad]

The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write πίστις (Strong's 4102 - pistis - faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity - BibleHub.com)

Fidelity = faithfulness, ie continual, active faith.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Fidelity = faithfulness, ie continual, active faith.

Doug

Thats the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, one doesnt have that faith naturally, thats the Faith that pleases God and believes in and follows Christ

 

[Kermos]

Then you can't accuse Arminians of salvation by works.

Sure I can since they do

God's works or man's?

crickets

Free-willians believe they are saved by their own works, and here is the specific example of civic as recorded in post #2,495:

Biblical Order of Salvation below:
3- belief in the gospel
6- the new birth
(civic 3:2-21)
​

As is plainly clear in the above abbreviated list, civic puts his work of man (number 3) before the work of God (number 6).

The Christ of us Christians puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Therefore, civic's Free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation is anti-truth for the Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so every Christian's belief is the work of God.

@Kampioen asks questions but does not respond to the post directed to Kampioen, specifically the recent post #5,501 on this same subject.

Free-willian hearts makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[civic]

Free-willians believe they are saved by their own works, and here is the specific example of civic as recorded in post #2,495:

​

Biblical Order of Salvation below:​

3- belief in the gospel​

6- the new birth​

(civic 3:2-21)​

​

As is plainly clear in the above abbreviated list, civic puts his work of man (number 3) before the work of God (number 6).

The Christ of us Christians puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Therefore, civic's Free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation is anti-truth for the Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so every Christian's belief is the work of God.

@Kampioen asks questions but does not respond to the post directed to Kampioen, specifically the recent post #5,501 on this same subject.

Free-willian hearts makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

Your Fatalistic heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

 

[civic]

Free-willians believe they are saved by their own works, and here is the specific example of civic as recorded in post #2,495:

​

Biblical Order of Salvation below:​

3- belief in the gospel​

6- the new birth​

(civic 3:2-21)​

​

As is plainly clear in the above abbreviated list, civic puts his work of man (number 3) before the work of God (number 6).

The Christ of us Christians puts the new birth "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) before belief in the same dialog (see John 3:16), and Lord Jesus leaves no latitude for man free-will choosing to believe by concluding the dialog with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Therefore, civic's Free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation is anti-truth for the Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so every Christian's belief is the work of God.

@Kampioen asks questions but does not respond to the post directed to Kampioen, specifically the recent post #5,501 on this same subject.

Free-willian hearts makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

Your fatalism/ determinism is from man’s word not Gods word.

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
Calvinism has it backwards with life,regeneration, the new birth preceding faith.

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life